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i did it! it worked... for 3 minutes, then the C12 started smoking and fire!
made a second pcb and.. same thing... what can be my fault?
And, it worked only without r/w pin: selecting 1&2 or 2&3 didn't boot drive. Is it normal or a sympton of something i did wrong?
Now i went out of 100nf caps, but any advice before burning other pcb?
Thank you in advance!
[Edit]
i solved! i found an old capacitor blister with some 100nf, changed c11, c12 & c13, and it works like a charme!
probably the chinese caps pusher found on the bay sold me some caps that doesn't work with more than 5v... ;)
@aotta: I am glad that you could find a solution. I was not aware that there are caps in this form factor that are rated below 25V or something like that.
As for the pin header, this was thought to be able to program the memory inside the circuit, but I was not able to make it work, yet. For the moment, it could be soldered to pins 1 & 2. I suppose that you are using a 2x16, this connects the program voltage input to 5V as it is recommended for a read operation.
However, if you are using a 2x32 you need to program the chip with an offset of $800 because the on those chips the address line A11 is on the same pin as the program pin on the others. That could be an explanation, why it worked without any jumper: the chip interpreted the open pin as low. So either hardwire this pin to ground or program with an offset, because it is never a good thing to leave an input pin floating!
It is already on my list of possible reworks to get rid of the jumper and use a 2x64 or larger ROM, because they are more easy to get hold of there days.
@freitz: thank you for the info, but i am using a 2716 (2x8k), and i can confirm appleIIsd works only without jumper at SV1.
I made 2 of them, and tested both on IIe and IIGS.
And i had some trouble with -12v and -5v with the second board too, so i didn't use c12 and c13, since i noticed your board doesn't use theese voltage. It works, but it may be a problem for the Apple in your opinion?
My compliments again for your great project!
@aotta: I am glad that all worked out for you. The caps on the -12V, -5V and +12V lines are not 'needed'. It was suggested in a TechInfo that unused power lines should be coupled to ground. C12 and C13 are pretty close so it is possible that they were shorted during soldering.
Could you check pin 21 of the 2716 for shorts to ground +5V or another pin when SV1 is open? What level is the pin at when SV1 is jumpered to 1-2?
Please make sure that have the latest firmware because I corrected another little thing recently.
Freitz, thanks for your info, so i can continue without c12 & c13 caps...
I checked pin 21 and it's not shorted to gnd or 5v.. when running with no switch on sv1, it's always lower than 1v.
When connected to 5v of sv1-pin1 (it's 5v when not bridged to sv1-pin2), the vpp it's about 0,3v, and card don't boot.
I used 2 Mostek MK2716j, programmed with 21v on vpp. May be this eeprom has something different from standard ones?
This is very strange!
I checked the datasheets and the Mostek is not different from other 2716 types: pin 21 (VPP) shall be connected to 5V when reading and 25V when programming. Leaving an input open is always a bad thing. Could you measure the supply voltages on each socket without any of the chips inserted? There seems to be something wrong with your boards.
Maybe we could discuss further per PM?
@freitz: sent pm with voltage reading
Hi there,
I have just finished making up the SD card interface, what a great project.
I have a little problem, I am trying it out in Apple IIGS ROM3 and its in Slot 7 Card seems to be working mostley, - thats only if I use a GS/OS boot disk with system 5.0.2 on it and initialize the SD that way then copy the system files over.
I have tyied making the SD with Cider press as Decribed http://bluemeanie-retro.blogspot.com/2017/12/how-to-prepare-sd-cards-for-appleiisd.html here, but I have had no luck and it will not boot.? And also the SD card once formatted this way wont be seen by Ciderpress anymore.??
I'm using the ROM .hex filed posted of the github https://github.com/freitz85/AppleIISd - Is this the current version.?Any ideas what might be going on.?
Regards
Vernon
Wow. I'm honestly jealous - you guys making cards like this is really fantastic.
I have to ask tho, having seen both SDcard and Compact Flash cards as HDD substitutes, is there a reason to favor one over the other? I kinda like the idea of CF just because it's physically bigger - not that's I'm against saving space, just that SD cards are a bit too tiny to me (tho certainly not as bad as Micro SD) But is there a performance or reliability (or even ease of R/W ops) for favoring one over the other?
CF is generally considered to be obsolete. It is getting harder to find CF media. Even regular SD is losing favor to Micro SD. If I was going to build a card today, I'd probably go with Micro SD. Actually I've got something in the works, and it uses Micro SD.
@vernman: my IIgs is a rom 1, so rom 3 is not tested by myself, but I am almost sure, that someone else has successfully used it in rom 3.
I have to admit, that the hex file in the repository is not the most recent version, as I have found a tiny bit nasty bug in the write routine recently. I will make a proper Bugfix Release and send you the updated version.
It is true, that Windows will not recognize the card anymore when it had been formatted by CiderPress. However, CiderPress will still be able to see the physical medium.
@TedThompson: I choose SD card, because I had already experience with them in several microcontroller applications. The second point was that I had found André Fachat's 6502-ready implementation of the SPI master.
SD cards are serial, so they need just a few pins to operate. CF cards are parallel, as they are compatible with both IDE and PCMCIA, but need way more pins to operate. 50, to be precise. The CPLD I choose, only has 44 itself!
In theory, a parallel connection can be faster, but my implementation of the SD card is already so far that it has to wait for the Apple.
Normal SD and micro SD are the same, they have the same chips inside. I choose the normal size, because the sockets are much more easy to solder. I wouldn't even think of soldering a CF socket by hand!
OK Thank you Freitz for the heads up. I've got a Apple II GS ROM1 as well so might give that a go. In case that's my problem. I look forward to trying a updated bugfix ROM when you get a chance to make one. I'll also try it out in my Apple IIe Platinum once a repair the power supply this weekend. About CiderPress. I was meaning if i initialize the SD card plugged into my Apple IIGS and format the 32meg partitions, then I take the SD card out and put it into a windows machine CiderPress will not see it.?Regards
Vernon
Hello Freitz, I am interested in one of these, are you still selling them?
@dm80218: I am currently in the process of planning a release of 25-50 preassembled boards with another Apple enthusiast. But it might take a while. I will keep you and the other forum members informed.
Very cool project. Count me in on one from the next lot. Are you assembeling by hand or getting them wave soldered in China?
-=Phyber
@nomikon: I am glad that you have found back to the Apple II and I think that my card could be just the right thing for you. It's small, it's cheap and it's quiet. Certainly different than an old SCSI drive. However, sometimes it is too quiet so that you don't know if the computer is loading, working or just stuck ;-) I had the idea to swap the power LED of my IIgs to a two-colour LED so that I could connect the one colour to my card and see when it's working without having the lid open. I still haven't found a LED that's in the correct direction, but that should not be the problem.
@Phyberoptic: We are not sure about that. At the moment we are planning to build them by hand, but we may switch to SMD for the chips as well. The having them wave soldered would be much better or just the only way. Do you have a good and cheap service in mind?
Hi freitz, could you put me down for one as well if you're building some more?
I will start a new list to collect all pre-orders. I will contact all of them as soon as I have more information about prices and dates, but that may take a while.
Right now I am researching the possibility of updating an EEPROM on the card within the Apple II with an updater app, so that you don't have to use an EPROM burner anymore. It may even be possible to update the old cards to do that.
This is intriguing. I especially like that it uses the native file system. I see on the blog that as of March you had the in system flashing sorted out. Does this mean more will be in productions soon? What is the price now?
Just to give a brief update on the status of the project:
The prototype for the new design arrived and it seems to work, except that every once in a while, the first byte of the EEPROM gets erased, but I am working on that. A new release and therefore a new batch of cards should be ready, soon.
I don't have information on prices, yet, but it will stay affordable. After all, this was one of the main reasons I designed this thing. However, I doubt that I will be able to offer a complete kit (with all components) anymore because it was just too much work. I will try to keep you up to date with the options.
Please add me to any list to purchase one of these.
Thank you,
Brad Hansen
Great news, a new batch of 50 boards is ready for sale!
Due to form factor obsolescence, I had to change the CPLD and the EEPROM to an SMD type. I also cleaned up the power supply section a bit. Overall I think it is a much more professional design now. Therefore it is not practical to sell it as a kit anymore. However, I managed to offer it for a price of 59€ (currently $65), excl. shipping. I think this is still a bargain compared to other products.
Another great feature is that the onboard firmware is updatable from within the Apple II via software. As previously, the card needs a 65C02 CPU, but I am working on a 6502 version.
I will reach out to everyone who has contacted me within the last two years about the new batch (how time flies!).
Keep me on the list please. Even if you offer it in kit form, as I do surface mount stuff a lot and have no issue with the soldering.
Thanks for keeping the project alive.
True good news!
Your work is amazing.
Thank you.
received the SD card interface from Freitz (many thanks), however having issues booting from a SD card - tried two card, a Fuji 128MB and a Kington 2GB - wrote the ProFile image onto them using Ciderpress.
On the 128MB card it only seems to create one partition, whilst on the 2GB is creates four 32Mb partitions and shows [CFFA] CFFA (4 or 6 partitions) at the top.
However when attempting to boot from either card, the IIe just sits there showing the AppleIIsd copyright message with the LED on the card flickering (so seems it is trying to boot)
Any help / suggestions much appreciated as I'm very rusty on Apple II systems
You have a IIe "enhanced"? i.e. with verified 65c02 and not regular 6502?
yes, Freitz was kind enough to supply me the Enhanced ROM set and I've swapped the original CPU for a Rockwell 65C02P4 - holding down both Apple keys on power up runs the newer diag and completes with SYSTEM OK
also not my day - the 0.1uF X2 cap has just decided to release its' smoke :-( - oh, well was planning to replace the X2 caps anyway along with those in my BBC Micro
Hello markjw,
A 128MB has not really 128MB but a bit less. This is why Ciderpress displays the option of 4 partitions only on cards 256MB and larger. I wanted to have a look at the sources of Ciderpress for a long time to make it recognize a 128MB card as three 32MB partitions and a final smaller on but I haven't found the time so far.
Is the image working in Virtual][ or AppleWin? The 2GB card should be fine. I am using a 512MB and an 8GB card in my computers.
yes, using Profile.2mg from your Github site - checked it booted fine in AppleWin just in case I got a corrupt download.
I assume the slight flicker from the LED is it trying to read the SD card so looks like the interface card is working - got another Kingston 2GB and a Sandisk 16GB I can try once I can replace the X2 cap (or just temporarily remove it)
update this morning - got the Apple IIe powered back up and tried two more 2GB SD cards - another Kingston and a Verbatim MicroSD - still got the same issue.
Also tried another SD card reader just in case the first one had any compatibilty issues - no luck.
Tried reseating the SD card interface and trying it in Slot 6 and Slot 7 with no other cards installed in the system - same issue, also no process with using another ProDOS image file to create the SD card
At this point I am completely out of ideas on how to get this system working
This is very strange I have had the report from another user with the same problems No matter which SD card he uses he can't make it boot.
My problem is that I have tested quite a few cards and they all worked well, so has Jens, who is currently manufacturing the cards for me. If I had a card that didn't work or at least knew which specific type/brand doesn't work, I could go deeper into debugging. SD cards are a bit picky in their initialization what workes for one type does not necessarily work for another.
The firmware supports MMC, SD V1, SD V2 and SDHC cards, so everything from 2MB to 32GB should work. The class of the card does not matter, even the slowest class 2 card has a minimum sequential writing speed of 2MB/s which is way out of the reach of any Apple II. During the early stages of development, I made some measurements and stopped reading a block of data (512 bytes) with 15ms. This equals a reading speed of 33kB/s. But this is only a theoretical value because this is only reading from the SD card and writing it into a buffer. The code around this (doing something with the data, looking which block to get next, etc) takes way longer.
It is very likely that my company will order everyone to work from home for a couple of weeks soon. This means that I will have plenty of time to look for bugs in the AppleIISd firmware ;-)
Ditto on the working at home bit ...
Any update on the cards? Projected ready to ship time? Just anxious to get one ... ;-)
Hi Freitz,
Cards I have tried are:
Fujifilm 128MB - Taiwan
Kingston 2GB - Japan
Kingston 2GB 50X Elite Pro - Japan
Veho 2GB Ulta Fast - Japan
Verbatim 2GB MicroSD - Taiwan (in a Sandisk MicroSD to SD adapter)
All exhibit the same symptoms - screen shows copyright message, board LED flickering - tested in slots 6 & 7 with no other boards in system. Ctrl-Reset then PR#6 / 7 produces the same issue - all cards can be read back in Ciderpress with all but the 128MB (single partition) showing 4x 32MB partitions and can see files listed - image used for testing is your ProFile one (also tested with a ProDOS 2.4.2 image, and your ProFile one works in AppleWin)
Apple IIe has Rockwell 65C02P4 CPU + Enhanced ROM set (UK) - system board is 820-0073-B / B607-0264-F manufactured wk 47, 1984 - passes onboard diagnostics with 'SYSTEM OK' message - no signs of any modifications to system board.
I will see if I can borrow some more SD cards to try - unfortunatly Ciderpress will not let me use the 16GB or 64GB Sandisk MicroSD cards I have.
Let me know if there is anything I can do to test or help (unfortunatly I'm no expert on Apple II systems), or let me know the details of some of the working cards you have and I'll see if I can source one of them.
Mark
With that wide a variety of SD cards failing, the problem does seem likely to be somewhere else.
Just to make sure, are you absolutely sure that your CPU is indeed a 65C02, and not an NMOS 6502? If the CPU is allegedly original equipment or from an Apple upgrade kit, I do find it slightly suspcious that they chose to use the "P4" part, rated for 4 MHz, rather than a presumably cheaper P, P2 or even P3 part. (The "P" there actually just means plastic case; it's the digit that's gives the speed.)
If the CPU came from AliExpress or someplace like that, it may be a pull from another system that's been re-marked. Many of these are actually NMOS CPUs. Of the six CPUs labeled "RC6502Pn" that I own, only three of them are actually CMOS parts; the other three are NMOS. (And in particular, both P4 parts I own are fakes; the real ones are P, P2 and P3 parts. But markings are in no way reliable: in the image at that link you'll see two identically marked RC6502P parts, down to the font, spacing and logo: one is NMOS one is CMOS.)
A really quick check (though in no way conclusive) is to check the date code: if you have a Rockwell part with a date code later than 1999 or 2000 it seems that it's almost certainly re-marked. (Rockwell was sold to Conexant in 2000, and by 2001 at the latest Connexant was producing parts with their name and logo on them.) For some reason the re-markers seem to like to put 2005-2015 date codes on their "Rockwell" chips.
But the easiest and best way to test is to run this little routine by Chromatix. It's the second one in that section, and on an Apple II series system you can just CALL -151, type it into the monitor with 2E8: A9 00 85 etc., and run it with 2E8G. A processor from Apple will probably give you a blinking S (as my IIc does), indicating it's a 65SC02; an upgrade from somwhere else may give you a C indicating you also have the bit-manipulation instructions. If you get an N you have a re-marked NMOS CPU.
I recomment using the following formating tool from the SD Association
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/
In most cases, this solved problems I had with SD cards...
tested with that code and correctly returns a flashing C so - date code on the chip is 8614 and no signs of it being remarked (1st 65C02P4 I got from another source was fake - date code from early 2019, black surface was removable with Isopropyl and the chip didn't work at all)
I'm starting to think this IIe has a problem somewhere else as it has started misbehaving - IN#2, Ctrl-A doesn't always return the 'Apple SSC:' prompt on the Super Serial card, now refuses to start diags on power up with both Apple keys held down. Think I need to pull the board and go over it to see if I can spot anything obvious and open a new forum thread for help.
Also did manage to get a copy of ProFile onto a 16GB card - created a 2GB card, imaged it using Win32DiskImager and then wrote the image onto a 16GB card. Ciderpress then read it quite happily - if I can get the IIe working correctly I'll see if it works with that card as older, smaller SD cards are getting rarer.
Freitz - many thanks for all your help and suggestions
Could this work as well with an Apple IIc by solering a disk cable to the connector, keeping in mind that the machine needs its firmware ROM to be version 255 to boot from an external drive?
This will never work, as my card is designed for the internal bus present on the slots in other Apple IIs. It has nothing to do with the floppy port on a IIc. The Floppy Emu is probably what you need.
I got a nice version of the AppleIISD Version 1.2.1 together with a prepared 8GB SD Card with 4 volumes.
I've installed the AppleIISD card in my enhanced Apple //e and it was easy to boot from the prepared SD card. This configuration is working fine!
I go also a Quickstart Apple II SD 1.1. Guide that explains how to prepare the SD cards using CiderPress 4.0.4. I have some new SD Cards and I tried to follow the Qickstart Guide. I was able to create a copy of the working SD card and in CiderPress the copy look identically. But the copy didn't boot. I baught exactly the same SD card (INTENSO SDHC Class 10 8GB) which is working, but none of the cards prepared with CiderPress will boot.
From the seller of my AppleIISD I got the information that there is probably a bug in CiderPress and therefore you cannot create bootable SD cards. As a workaround I should copy the image of the working card with Win32DiskImager to one of the empty cards. That worked.After I copied the image to another card, I could boot the Apple //e with this card.This card could then be edited with CiderPress without any problems. It remains bootable :-)
Question:
Is there a method to create a bootable SD card for an Apple //e without the workaround?I would like to use some smaller SD cards and I cannot copy the 8GB image to them.
Thanks a lot!
Hi, hello all.I have probably come to the party a bit late here, but I have come into possession of a bare v1.1 board of Florian Reitz's Apple ii SD design (all lovely thro' hole logic/sockets). I would be interested in attempting population of the board for my iie (enhanced).I know that there are later version of the design, but do you think it is worthwhile my trying this as I have already got the board? I can see that the later version accommodates more surface mount logic and R/W for the EEPROM, but are there are intrinsic problems with v1.1 that would later cause me problems?.
One wrinkle in the plan is that the public documentation for version 1.1 seems to have passed into history & disappeared along with component values. Although, from github, the assembled board images suggest a high level of of functional similarity in the versions; so I suspect (eg) the values for resistor pull-ups are likely 100k and the caps are mostly for decoupling (0.1uf?). Can anyone confirm?
The other wrinkle is that the passives involved seem to be package size 0603 - is that right?. I am of an age to have plenty of free time and short sight that is drifting toward long sightedness, so 1206 packages hold no fear when used with hot air, but if I have to deal with the really l'il ones like 0603 packages then I would just like to be sure that I am blowing away the right components.
thanks.
@joshy I am aware that some people have not been successful in creating a bootable SD card for the AppleIISd. Jens,a friend who is producing and selling cards for me provided me with a few unbootable cards, but we were not able to figure out why they would not work. Even a binary compare of the raw data showed no difference or none that would likely make them unbootable. However, we noticed that once a card was bootable it would always work.
In general there are no or lesser problems with older cards than newer ones, so we suspect that maybe the card's own controller may sometimes be in a state my firmware is not aware of, or that the controller does some kind of remapping of the physical blocks on the card. I'd appreciate any input on this.
@spoyalloy HW V1.2 was created because components like CPLD and the EEPROM are increasingly harder to get in a traditional package. While it is true that V1.1 had no direct support for an EEPROM, it can be added with a single wire and the appropriate CPLD file as documented in this blog post.
Schematics and docs for V1.1 are not lost, they are simply an older version of the repository on GitHub. I can send it to you by PM if you are unfamiliar with Git, once I am back from vacation.
The few SMD components have always been 0603 but are all non polarized so are not to hard to assemble. Maybe you could ask a friend to solder the handful of components. Of course, a thin solder tip is helpful.
Brilliant, thanks for advice. I found the info in Github - I simply didn't know that Github worked like that. Formerly I had been terrified at wrecking someone's files by searching in the wrong areas but you gave me courage! Enjoy your holiday.
Hi all,
after an (inarguably) very long time, I managed to release firmware version V1.2.2 which deals with the issue that sometimes the first byte of the EEPROM gets corrupted. As usual, the fix was trivial but finding it was more or less by accident.
The "issue" with the computer freezing when a Z80 card is installed turned out to be not a problem of the card, but of the NoSlotClock driver that was on the ProDOS image I supplied for testing. As a workaround, removing the driver solves the problem. I have found the sources for the driver and will attempt to provide an updated version soon.
A more detailed description of the two issues will appear on my blog in the next few days.
Thanks to everyone's support and patience in this project!
That is one of the known issues with the NSC driver. It has to go looking for where the clock is - in a motherboard ROM or an expansion card. And that can trigger boards like Z80 cards to turn on. I'd encourage you to consider adding the ROMX clock driver to your image. It doesn't have or need a search routine since it knows exactly where to look. And while there are many NSCs out there, we feel for about the same price you can get the ROMX and have all of its features along with the Real-Time Clock.
20210112_201900 (Small).jpg
... and most of the parts from Ali Ex are on the way to me.
I hope to fit my 2 Apple IIe with SD Drives because there are only very expensive ways to get disks for this maschines.
I searched github but did not find a "Donate" button ... I like the project and the work done by the user called freitz85 so I want to send him a little something ....
If he could give me a paypal address ?
Michael
built this great little project along with the sdisk //. can't seem to get passed the copyright screen with the appleIIsd, no sd card I have tried works. the 2gb sd cards that work in my sdisk // do not work with the IIsd. the 8gb cards I have, none work with the IIsd. of course the sdisk // doesn't support cards above 2gb (fat16).
any help is appreciated, yes my IIe is enhanced :)
kneehighspy
Hi Florian, is it it correct, that only the firmware (Apple2d.bin) in the Flasher.dsk has to be updated to the eeprom to resolve "the first byte issue"? There is no need to update the cpld?
Kind Regards Boris
i believe my problem with my IIsd has something to do with this 80 column/8mb ram card i have from garrets workshop. if i leave the 80 column card in, sometimes booting from the IIsd hangs at copyright screen, and other times it breaks into the monitor upon boot. if i remove the card, the led on the IIsd continously flashes like it's trying to boot. do you need 128k ram to boot the images from the IIsd? will it not work with a 64k enhanced IIe?
//kneehighspy
Hi kneehighspy, how many partitions do you have on your sd-card?
I need 2 partitions to boot from Slot 7. 4 Partitions to boot from every Slot.
Regards Boris
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