Lately, I've been in a period of pure aggrivation and frustration towards my car. I have the great misfortune of owning a 2002 Ford Focus. In November, the transmission ate some gears and the engine developed a mystery oil leak. Unfortunately, it took the dealer three weeks to get this resolved. In December, the car was the victim of a 40 something woman in a BMW X5. (The BMW won) At the time, I was disappointed that my car wasn't totalled. Today, after getting out of a doctor's appointment, the ignition lock refused to budge. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the key to work. I tried my other key, no dice. Fortunately, since my car is covered under the 100k mile powertrain warranty (the let's throw in roadside assistance and cover as little as possible, but make it sound like the car might not fall apart before it's paid off warranty), Ford covered the tow to my local dealer. Unfortunately, despite the fact that one would assume that being able to start the car would be considered part of the powertrain, Ford doesn't see it this way. The bill from the dealer for the repair - $400. Assuming the clicking and clunking noises that the car makes while in motion, it's a safe bet that it'll probably fall apart before it's paid off. Keep in mind that the car has been serviced and maintained according to manufacturer recommendations, and only by dealers. The car also has all of 59k miles on it as of this morning.
All I can say at this point is this - If you're considering buying a new car, buy a Honda. One, chances are good that it'll actually have been made in the U.S. (my focus was made in mexico), and it seems to have a reputation of lasting. After doing some googling, my issues have been common with the car. They are listed below.
- brakes - rotors tend to go quickly
- tires - a focus that can keep its alignment is a rare one, all of the others eat tires at an ungodly rate
- manual transaxle - despite the mtx75 transaxle being around since the early '90s, cost cutting measures during the 02 model year equalled syncros that self destruct on a regular basis - for me - every 20-25k miles
- slave cylinder - leaks, has pressure issues, eats the clutch, despite this, ford still insists that the clutch be paid for by the car's owner as it's a wear item, makes a whooshing sound when clutch pedal is depressed
- ignition switch - a common issue according to google, and the tow operator. He said that I was the third focus owner today with a nonfunctional ignition switch. Way to go Ford!
- Buttons and switches - also seem to break at an alarming rate, apparently 55k miles is expecting too much. It's a good thing I got the cheapo base model - fewer of these to break. (the trunk release button doesn't work anymore)
At this point, the car has depreciated rapidly (Thanks Ford and GM for your "Let's sell new cars for discounted prices instead of making them good" approach) to the point that trading it in is not viable. I've come to the conclusion that I'm gonna ride this one out and buy a Honda when it's paid off. I've got just shy of three years left on the loan. Hopefully the car will last that long. Chances are that it'll be sitting in my backyard for the last few months to a year of the loan due to it reaching the point where fixing it just isn't viable.
I have to agree with your view on this. Although from what I've heard, ford has been trying to beef up their cars. I had an 02 mustang gt, seems to be a bad year for ford. The front right brake fell off.
Toyota, honda, subaru seem to making some very nice cars.
My ride's been sitting (sitting!!) at the shop for... uh, about 5 weeks now. Long story... my mechanic was sick, the chunp he left in charge gave me a ridiculous quote on a water pump job, I call the in town specialist, he gives me a reasonable quote, I buy my own part and ship it to the specialist. I tell the chump, and he wants to charge me an hour labor for the quote. So I wait for my guy to get back from being sick. Two weeks later, he's finally back in the swing, and I tell him about the charge for the quote, and he's totally on my side... no charge (he owns the shop), but wants to look at it again for another quote. But then he never calls me back. I patiently wait 2 more weeks, then have to call 3 or 4 times to get him on the phone (I keep getting the chump). I finally get him, and he thinks he's waiting for me to give him the part... I tell him the part is sitting at the specialists... but my guy says he wants to do the job for what the specialist quoted. Now... normally, I'd always go to the specialist... except that... I get on his nerves, so I just save him for the tricky jobs, or the expensive jobs (he's actually incrediably reasonable, works on imports at $45/hr). So... I'm totally intimidated by this specialist guy... he's a nice guy, I guess... but he's foreign (no idea where he's from, but feels like eastern europe)... so I don't want to tick him off... at the same time, my normal mechanic has been totally cool to me... lowers his rates for me... whatever. He's right down the road, so its very convenient, and he does good work. So I'm in this pickle. I either have to get my car towed to the specialist, and risk snubbing my mechanic, or go get the part from the specialist (where I shipped it) and risk getting that, you know, european cold shoulder thing. I can't believe it... I'm totally paralyzed.
As bad as my 1993 Corsica acts up, I have nothing on you!
I'm down to an oil leak, and I think a transaxle needing to be replaced.
After my wife's car was totalled 2 days after spending $1100 in repairs, she drove mine for a couple of weeks. When her client's mom saw the condition my car was in, she wondered why it could not have have been mine instead. Pbbbbbt. At least it's paid off.
just indecisive. I've been a mechanic for a long time, and believe me, we can't stand customers like you. Don't take this personally, I'm sure you're a fine person, and if I met you socially we'd probably get along fine, but when it comes to your behavior with a car, you're the most annoying thing in the world. Ok, you took it to your guy and got a price that you could easily beat, got a better deal elsewhere, and then? Let the car sit, causing yourself a great deal of stress, causing two shops worth of people a great deal of annoyance, tying up a parking spot at a garage (we HATE that) that could be used for cars that are getting repaired, and for what? How much could you possibly have saved? $200? If it's that much, take it to the specialist, but if I were your regular guy, I might very well have asked you to not bring it back again. It might seem harsh, but if you're looking to be that cheap with your car, I don't need to deal with someone that's going to try to nickel and dime me every time I see him/her. Now, I've got a reputation as an honest mechanic, because I don't cheat people, I give them breaks all the time on parts and labor that they never see. I help people out that have problems (sick, elderly, etc...) because I like helping people.
People that are cheap use inferior products. If you brought your own parts to my shop I'd explain to you why you'd either take your parts or your business elsewhere. You may have gotten a better deal on it, but I can't warranty the part, meaning you're paying for me to put it back in if it fails prematurely, but when it does, it's never the customer's fault for buying a piece of garbage airtex pump, or duralast alternator, The Mechanic must have installed it wrong.
I'm sure the specialist doesn't want to deal with you, because you're not going to be a repeat customer. He's going to have work no matter what, and by doing good work his customers will come back, but not you, because you're afraid of him etc... There's no incentive for him to take you on as a customer, because you'll only be back when you get cheap enough.
Perhaps public transit is for you.
I've never heard of charging for a quote. I didn't want to start something with the guy my mechanic left in charge... so I waited for him to return to work.
He wanted $25 too much for the pump, of a brand no one's ever heard of (I chose to get the one IPD sells), and $70 too much for the labor. Not insignificant.... not nickles and dimes.
In my experience, its always exactly the opposite. The mechanic chooses the inferior part so he can make a small profit. But in my case here... the quality part was a lot less expensive.
Well... its not like that at all. I've been going to the specialist for about 15 years, but we've never really developed any relationship to speak of. He's a very interesting guy, and I think that's the problem... he's interesting... so people bug him. He just wants to work. But its not even like he has to... he's very well established, everyone with a foreign car that's not under warranty uses him. He's got a field full of cars waiting to be worked on. He almost acts like he's semi-retired, and rarely does jobs himself anymore (from my experience, this is how most well established mechanics work... they only do the jobs they have to because no one else can). I hesitate to say it... but I'm sure its true from where I'm sitting... the guy is very wealthy.
In america, people often have a deep relationship with their car. Its true for me, and I think its true for iantm as well, and many others here at AF. Some mechanics just don't understand this... and they are more right than wrong: its a thing. If its old, don't bother with fixing it, replace it. But that's not how I am. I can't explain it... but I love my car. My mechanic has shown me infinite patience, and he knows I appreciate it. I only started going to him about a year ago, for the little things at first, mount my tires, replace the pads, fix the exhaust.... Once he learned the idiosyncrasies of (me &) my vehicle (its a rare car), I began to trust him on pretty much everything. This year, he'll be putting on a whole new suspension... probably close to $600 in labor alone. So had he not been sick, and had I not had to deal with someone who had never seen me before... probably someone with philosophies in common with yourself... I wouldn't have found myself in this situation. My mecahnic would have given me a quote, if it was too high I would have told him I gotta take it somewhere else. That's it. No "ok, but you owe us an hour labor for the quote" bs. Also, my mechanic isn't hurting for work either. He's still young, probably only a year or two younger than me, but he's got it goin' on... got his own shop, 5 or 6 employees... and the place is always hoppin (I pass it on the way to work).
Sounds to me like you've had one too many customers that were a pain to you... so maybe you project this on every customer... its what you've come to expect from customers. True... I've sat here a week now because I don't want to face the specialist and ask for my part (these mechanics all know each other btw). I've even explained to my mechanic about the specialist, and he laughed and said he knew what I meant. The guy can fix a car... but he can be kind of a bear. If you weren't a mechanic, you'd see how us non-mechanically oriented are at your mercy... and what a precarious position it can be.
a face only a mother could love ----------------------------the other for the river and bad winters
$25 extra for a water pump is pretty cheap considering how much extra it would cost to have to do the job again. There are probably 30 different rebranders, remanufacturers, OEM suppliers, or other part boxers for that any part. The fact that you don't know the name doesn't mean the part you're bringing him is any better or worse. The fact that you got it so much cheaper probably means worse. In car parts, you DO get what you pay for.
The only job that 95% of us have to do is show up and work all day long, just like everyone else. I have even worked at shops where the garage was no longer a financially supporting arm of the business, but every car was still a priority, there was no slacking of the work ethic. I'd hate to be you where your choice is someone that doesn't go to work, and a guy that you can't get to worIk on your car.
True, it IS just a thing, but I don't know a single mechanic (and having done this job for well over a decade, I know quite a few) that got into the job because it was a safe, secure way to grow old and retire rich. Every single man in the business that I know does it because he either loves cars, or he's just gifted with mechanics. It's not so much a job as it is a calling. Most of the guys I know (there are very very few women that wrench) have other skills, and other careers to fall back on, but fix cars because that's just what they do. So far as a car being a thing goes, diamond rings are just things, so are christmas trees, kids toys... anything tangible can have a sentimental attachment. And so far as old? One of my cars is a 1965 Cadillac.
Oh? What is it?
A fun statistic for you? Average used car repair cost: $600/6mo.
Hardly, I have plenty of new customers all the time, and I retain them by way of being fair and honest with them. I give them fixes that stay fixed (I have a very low comeback rate) at very fair prices. I do have customers that I recommend they buy new cars because the car they are driving is dead or too costly to repair, and I'm happy to do it, because they still come in for oil changes, and other non-warranty work. They'll be regulars when the warranty expires, they only last a few years anyway, but if a customer gets so cheap that they want me to do the job at a rediculous price, telling me they'll take their business somewhere else, or they can get someone else to do it cheaper, off they go, and don't come back. It's not worth it to deal with people like that, because they don't respect the work you do, they only want to spend as little as possible. They don't want quality work, they want cheap work.
I wasn't always. I got my start in a gas station, I worked as a gas pumper. I've always been a tinkerer, and even as a kid would take things apart to see how they worked. Well, while working as a gas pumper, my car broke, the water pump died a white, smokey death. I asked the owner of the shop if I could watch the repair, and the rest was history. All these years later and the guy that fixed the car, the owner of the shop, and I are all still quite good friends. They are both mechanics also, one still works for the other, and I help out down there when I can.
being a mechanic is more of a life style than it being a job
you know what ive noticed though, no body ever posts on how well their car is doing. ive had a focus that i beat on really really really bad for 2 years but it was a 2001. i ended up loosing my job and lost the car. all cars have their bad manufacturing dates i think. i noticed changes from my 2001 to the 2002's when i started seeing them come out. they looked cheaper on the inside to me, even though i had the base model. i will admit though, i managed to wipe out 3rd gear syncro from shifting so hard. (rough times in life makes you angry sometimes) but that car always got me where i needed to go and looked awsome to me, sounded awsome to me, i had a ZX-3... i do miss the car but i know my toyota/geo is a much better built car.
$25 was more than half the price of the part. And I went with a name. What do I know from waterpumps? I called a mechanic from another state entirely whom I used to go to, who's knowledge is beyond reproach (former Volvo employee): he told me what the dealer would use (gave me 2 names). When the ipd catalogue had one of those names, AND it was on sale, I jumped at it. Its a brand new part. Unopened box. If it fails, its covered by the manufacturer's warranty. If the job needs done again, chances are it was the job that was botched and not the part. (This is my 3rd 240, I've had to replace waterpumps before... and when I discover that, instead of hose clamps, silicon was used as a sealant, I'm not too pleased).
If I was uberwealthy, maybe I wouldn't care. I'd research what the best part was, and I'd insist on that part, and I'd make the mechanic get it. I've been a 240 owner long enough to know there are huge variations in parts... and it has less to do with quality than it has to do with some manufacturer cashing in on the foreign car repair market.
We appreciate it.. we really do.
SWEET--- then you know... with old cars (not talking about classics that resell in the $30K range) you have to make judgement calls. To most mechanics, it doesn't make any sense to spend $1500 on a new clutch and rebuilt transmission on car that has a resell value of $2000. But with 240 owners, this sort of thing can happen. And there's too many of us for ALL of us to be crazy. Most owners will look at it like a pet that has died. They don't stop loving the car... but that's it, once the financial aspect no longer makes sense. For me, I really can't afford it... but then again, I'm one of the crazy ones.
I know it looks like every other 240, and there are a lot of those still on the road (?hunderds of thousands... maybe ?millions). It's a 1984 Volvo 242ti. What makes this rare is more circumstance than anything. Volvo stopped making 242's (the 240 coupe) with the 1984 model year (most made, of course, in 1983). That model year, Volvo made 7,887 242s worldwide (oddly enough, the exact production info is available online). Split that by 3 because there were 3 different models in 1984 (GL, DL, & Turbo), so, about 2,629 '84 242 Turbos total. Split that by three because there were 3 colors available in 1984 for turbos (Brick Red, Black, and Silver), so about 877 Silver '84 242 Turbo's. Split that number by 2 because there were 2 different transmissions available, so about 438 Silver '84 242 Turbo's with a manual transmission. Split this number again by 3 because there are 3 manufacturing locations (one in Canada, one in Denmark, and one in Sweden), so about 146 Swedish Silver '84 242 Turbo's with a manual transmission. Split this number again by (oh... lets say) 10, because Volvo only began installing intercoolers in 1984 (prior to this, all intercoolers were dealer installed), and by the history of my car traced by its VIN, it rolled off the line in late January 1984 (one of the last 242s ever built), so about 15 Swedish Silver '84 Volvo 242 Turbo's with a manual transmission with factory installed intercoolers ever made. Now the estimates get a bit fuzzy.... These cars in general (242 Turbo's, which I believe were manufactured only between 1980-1984), for whatever reason, became incredibly popular among drivers in the Michigan racing circuit. Untold numbers of these vehicles made their way to Michigan never to be heard from again. They were raced for years, but ended up rusting out due to Michigan winters and road salt — a sad and untimely end for a proud car. Mine came from Southern California, where it is extremely dry. Now take into account some aspects of the age of the car.... When Volvo first made turbos, they were all oil-cooled (as I'm sure you're aware, more modern turbos are water cooled). This was problematic because many owners were unaware that the turbo needed time to cool before cutting the engine off. If the engine didn't cool after a long enough drive (was shut off right away), the overheated oil would coke in the turbo. There are very few 240 Volvo's with the original oil-cooled turbos still in them, and I think by 1986, Volvo had switched to water-cooled turbos. Generally speaking... these turbo's would need replaced every 80-100K miles. Mine's not in 100% perfect shape... but it still goes, gives a decent amount of pressure. Also, when I purchased the car 6 years ago, it had just under 100K miles on it (insanely low milage for a 240 from any year). So... while I'm not exactly sure, I am reasonably sure that it is an extraordinarily rare car... just by the hard numbers alone there weren't many to begin with... and today? For all I know, and arguably, I have the only Swedish Silver 1984 Volvo 242 Turbo with a manual transmission with factory installed intercooler (with the original turbo — and original transmission and clutch — still intact) left in the known universe. I can barely wait for it to achieve classic status so that I can properly insure it (Insurance co.s will only insure the blue book value...(@$2500) but the market value for a 1980-84 242 Turbo is roughly a little over twice that, if you can find one. One that is dealer restored goes for $8-$10K).
I wouldn't doubt you... but for 240's, it's a lot less. Over the time I've had the car, not including insurance, I figure it has cost me just under $3 a day to operate.
I can assure you that's not me. I have huge respect for mechanics, and one of the reasons is that they must deal with people like that (I'm a sys admin, so I have little contact with the public at large, and thankfully). My mechanic's regular rate is $55/hr labor. Perfectly reasonable. But he lowered that to $45/hr for me, without me even asking or haggling or anything, because he knew that's what the specialist was charging me. I only found out what his normal rate was when he was sick. Before my car got stranded there, I had the Jeep in, and that was the rate I was given on the work done. I didn't say a thing to the mechanic he left in charge, I just paid it without blinking. Once I discovered that was the normal rate, I realized, of course, I was given a special rate... and how could I expect my mechanic to have informed the guy he left in charge that I get a better rate?
Would it surprise you to know that I still have the phone numbers of every mechanic that has worked on my car (since I've owned it)? Across 3 states, there have only been 5. One in particular, the former Volvo employee, I will stop in when I'm in the area and visit for no particular reason (I happen to know, also, mechanics don't really like this, generally speaking... so I don't always get a warm welcome... but more often, its more than just a hello, got no time, see ya, its a come in, have coffee, hear some good Volvo stories). I think, for 240's only, probably, I am a reasonably well educated owner/customer. I have a good idea, usually, of what a particular problem is when it occurs, and what the cost should be on a particular job. But I can't do the job myself to my own satisfaction, so I harbor a huge respect for these men.
I have a credo; if I can't fix it, I don't buy it (also applies to my computer purchases). If I cannot reach all the important connections on the engine, if I can't easily replace parts, if I have to crawl under to replace the most mundane parts, I won't buy it. My wife and I bought a 2003 Hyundai Elantra new specifically for the warranty; I can't work on it, let them do it (besides, her choice of car). Myself? I own a 1986 Chevrolet Celebrity Eurosport. 20 years old? Yeah, but it has an engine I can actually work on. Sure, it's cranky at times and a bit cantankerous, yeah, but... I put the key in the ignition, turn it, and VROOOOOM. About 13 years or so ago, Mother Earth News had an article about the benefits and virtues of buying an older vehicle. Good idea, in my book.
EDIT - Found the article... Practically Used Homestead Wheels
Quote:
I wouldn't doubt you... but for 240's, it's a lot less. Over the time I've had the car, not including insurance, I figure it has cost me just under $3 a day to operate.
well, i wouldnt know how significantly less that is... because i believe he was talking about repair costs... and, at 3 dollars a day to operate.... if you figure 182 and a half days (6 months) at 3 dollars a day... thats $547.50.... which def. is not alot less that $600... especially if you need any repairs over that time period....
now, none of this has to do with apples... but, lets see... 25 bucks extra for the pump... another what $70 in labor? $95.00? that IS nickles and dimes.... i would have just let him do the work and if it really bothered you, i'd recomennd eating the 25 and see if he'd give you $70.00 labor credit.
I also dont say this without experience... currently own and or maintain; 1988 VW Jetta GL, 1989 VW Jetta GL, 1989 VW Jetta GLI 16V Recaro, 1995 VW Passat GLX VR6, and... 1990 Chevy S10 Blazer. the 89 GLI is my daily driver..... as your 242 shares some of the design concepts as my car, and because you can fit several very small people under the hood of a 240, i cant imagine it is that difficult to work on. As much as i love my car(s) I ABSOLUTLEY wont let anyone else work on them (at least not most of the time) I cant imagine that anyone else could love my car the way I do. That being said, there is a great import place around me (the owners used to race VW's, and one of them currently drives a supercharged MK3 Jetta) and they have an amazingly cheap labor rate of $65.00/hr the few times ive needed them to do work for me, I'd have gladly paid almost double their labor rate. (on a side note, these guys are so great, that without even having an appoinment or calling for that matter.... i drove by one day and saw them working... my car was knocking a bit as i drove and i knewe that i needed new axles... i was working so much i didnt have time to do it, so i scheduled w/ them... so i drove by with a strange noise, they dropped the car that was on the lift,. brought me in and took at my car just for the hell of it, no charge... we realized i needed a transmission mount.).....
Also, on another side note... anyone from CT/MA/RI: STAY AWAY FROM NEDS EUROCAR SERVICE ON HOPKINTON RD IN WESTERLY RI. THIS WELL ESTABLISHED VOLVO SPECIALIST IS A CHARLTAN WHO SHATTERED MY TRANSAXLE CASE, CHEATED ME OUT OF $700.00, AND LOCKED THE SHOP DOOR IN MY FACE WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT REPLACEMENT OPTIONS FOR MY TRANSAXLE.
That's as good a credo as it gets for those who (apparently) can't really afford to pay a mechanic. I say catmistake should stop the dithering, go retrieve the car-and-part and replace the damn waterpump himself!
And iantm, I think you'd be well-advised to dump that Focus ASAP, before its value drops to zero. Why suffer the ongoing psychic trauma, it ain't worth it.
dan k
Not just the money for me... it's a control issue! I come from a family of speed freaks (my late brother raced motocross, stock and dirt, my uncle Formula 1 during the 1950's). There are very few people in my family who can't repair their cars. Being as were all basically hillbillies, this credo extends into all aspects of our lives.
Ought to see where I removed my own appendix...
he said average... my figure is a solid one, not an average but the actual amount. On average, my repair bills probably have been about $100. (The most expensive thing I did to it was replace the wireing harness... and there was no labor charge, a friend did it. But the harness was $350.) In fact, I can't remember a bill but for the one that was over $120.
a lot less... what I was figuring was ALL money put into the car, while I've owned it, minus insurance and fluids...
Send me $95. What? Come on... its just nickles and dimes. Don't be cheap, man.. send me $95.
I'm driving an '85 AMC Eagle station wagon. It's a gas guzzler, and when the weather is wet, something in it refuses to propel the car forward. But in dry weather (or after I've coaxed it into moving forward long enough to loosen it up) it just keeps going and going and going. Got it from my grandmother aout three years ago with only 79000 miles on it. (Little Old Lady drove it once a week to church--honestly!)
Of course I keep having to pay to replace worn-out bits, but that engine won't quit. And that's after years of using it to deliver papers, too!
People keep telling me what a cool, classic-looking car it is, and I tell them I'd trade it for something more fuel-efficient, but nobody's taken me up on it yet.
(Wanna see what an AMC Eagle looks like? Watch 'Romancing the Stone' on a big screen. In the background, in the first street scene, the exact duplicate of my car drives by.
)
My first car was a 1975 Pacer-X. Painted aluminum color... and, yes it had a name; Spindrift. Miss it at times...
Send me $95. What? Come on... its just nickles and dimes. Don't be cheap, man.. send me $95.[/quote]
well... lets see.... give me a valid reason. or....
well.... give me a paypal address and wait like a week....
or... just get your car....
or.... get up off my nuts. old cars take money. not internet bitching.
or whatever.... im freakin done w/ this silly post. fix your car or dont, i know my VW's will live on either way, with good parts.
EDIT: BTW the guy two houses down from me has some sort of 240 turbo, with the fogs in the grill... its red w/ a tiny little spoiler on the trunk... I freakin LOVE that car!!!!
hey, man... totally not being serious here...
I love VWs... used to have a Wolfsburg Jetta... don't much care for the new models (although, I don't much care for the new models from any manufacturer... except I kind of like the mini's styling). One problem with VW's, though, from the perspective of the non-mechanically inclined: too many plastic parts. That makes for cheap repair... but at some point, they all start to go one after the other until they are all replaced (talk about nickle and diming). If I was getting a used one, I'd make sure it was old enough that the owner had already done this (check the repairs).
You've got a fine collection.
The 240 next door, btw, if the grill is original, is known as a GT. I believe they were made 76-79. Very desired. Esp if they have a flat hood. I don't much care for spoilers. Anything that makes the car look like it goes fast detracts from its reputation as a sleeper. (I've been thinking about removing the air dam from mine... )
The 2001 and early 2002 Focus had lots reliabity problems.
I honestly have no idea what could have being going on at Ford to screw them up that bad.
In my experence Ford vechicles are reaible.
I have a 99 Mazda B3000, which is a rebadged Ford Ranger. I have 92K Miles and it and the only problem I have had is the Rear Speed sensor crapping out one day.
The only other stuff I have done to it is normal maintance stuff. Brakes, Plugs, Plug Wires, and Belt, oil and transmission fluid changes. Oh I did have to replace the factory Battery a couple of months ago. 6 Years on a battery is pretty good.
I fully expect to drive it to 200K miles. And then the only reason I will replace is because I will be tried of looking at it.
I know lots of people that drive Fords and have good luck with them. I can say I would buy another. In fact this truck is my second Ford.
I do agree with about the Big three's dicount approach being a bad.
Hm. I've been thinking of removing the rear spoiler from my 740Ti for a few weeks now, simply because I know it can beat Nissan 200SX's and keep up(sorta) with the odd Subaru WRX.... but it almost *looks* like it could, which makes it a little less fun ;).