68kmla down?

I'm inclined to agree.

Peace,
Drew

One of the admins spilled beer on the server.

im suprised tom levens hasnt said anything since hes on here as well

i know what happened to the server, and why they are having problems getting it back up. The feets came off the server!!! And they lost its hat!

Seriously, I haven't been on irc in a while, because i've been busy, problems with my own server, and the conversation has really died down. It's really sad, I havent been a member there for very long, but I really miss the MLA. I agree, the least the admins could do would be to give us an update.

The name "Tom Levens" has appeared in this thread a couple times now. I haven't the faintest idea who he is other than what I've read in this thread, that he is an admin of the 68MLA forum. If that is true and if he is indeed also a member of applefritter, then why haven't any of you who are friends to Tom pounded on him for some answers! Goodness knows I would if he were an associate of mine! It never hurts to ask, folks.

And if one of you has contacted Mr. Levens, and he gives an excuse of "this or that" as to why things are taking so long, it would be prudent to offer some friendly advise to Tom at that point. What advice? Quite simply, for him to put up a simple text web page that advises all 68kMLA members as to what in the world is going on. To have a mere 404 error up, as is the case now, is ludacrous. We need some official information posted for goodness sake.

If this Tom Levens is indeed a part of getting the site back online, he has a responsibility to the community, as a "leader" of our online community, to make public annoucements and keep us updated and informed. A true leader does this directly, not through hearsay or private remarks through friends. May those of you who are friends of Tom advice him in such a manner without further delay.

He's been in the IRC channel to talk about what's going on. The company won't hand over the backup apparently, and no one else has any current backups.

In case you don't know, the IRC channel is #68kmla on irc.freenode.net

One of the admins spilled beer on the server.

Only Drew and Jeff do that.

I _have_ had a few close calls with beer and Macs. I don't think I've ever actually violated the sanctity of a Mac's circuits with the frothy stuff, though.

Once in college I nearly doused my Duo 230 (it was caseless at the time, so the bare innards were strewn all about and powered up, of course) in Sam Adams Boston Lager. More recently, I got a little "inspired" after drinking a few New Belgium Blue Paddle pilsners and decided it would be a good idea to paint a Wallstreet "Blue Paddle" blue.

I love beer, and I love Macs. Somehow, I don't think the two really go well together, though. It's like oil & water...

Or were you talking about some other Drew?

Peace,
Drew

This is in no way meant to be underhanded in any waw so please read on:

I used to own 68kmla.net and agreed to transfer it for easy keeping of the domain, and was also going to transfer 68kmla.org for same safe keeping. Somehow .ORG did not transfer, so I still own 68kmla.org.

I am putting up a temporary forum on 68kmla.org to help some of the members out so they can have a place to post.

I'm currently waiting for my database to be setup, and then I can create the forum. I'm keeping the forums very simple, after all it's just temporary, unless of course things sorta stay the same as they are. Does anyone have any suggestions or even opposed to this idea? I don't want to step on any toes.

I don't see any problem with it assuming, of course, that Cine, Tom, et al. also don't have a problem with it.

I would email at least Cine and Tom before you do that. They may have a thought on that. Also, they may have some backups available to them that you might be able to restore...

Peace,
Drew

i know a lot fewer folk care about the RC07 - but a few of us are sad enough to.
anyway what with its linkage to the 68kmla - it dies so does the retrochallenge, along with any hope of trying to get it to actually work. there is the retrochallenge.net page, which without the 68mla is really a place holder.
i too was thinking about doing something on the side in the meantime until things swing one way or another.

Since Mr. 680x0 mentioned that the site owner is only putting his comments on an IRC channel, can we assume that the new 68kMLA is now going to be IRC-only?

Really, this length of down time is truly a sad situation beyond all comprehension. I don't see how any provider can withold a backup from a paying member in good standing. Is there a lawsuit in the works now?

this is insane. I have to agree with all of you, this is taking way too long to get a site back up.

perhaps they should just unlock the archives, and we can all start posting in there, unless that is just a snapshot, and not a complete forum system.

-digital

from what i understand, what they did with the archives is just convert them to html code

The 68kmla.org forum is now open for those that wish to participate, and I will try and visit IRC and get an update from the admins. The silence so far has not been encouraging. So let us hope all will resolve itelf.

http://www.68kmla.org is the address for those who wish....

Remiel, thank you for your time and efforts in putting up the temporary site for 68kMLA fans. But the problem I see is that if people start posting like crazy on your new forum, and then the old 68kMLA site comes back up in a couple months from now, how can you merge the new posts into the old forum? I assume you cannot, and therefore any posts made to your new forum would be deleted. In light of this, many people many decide not to post at all.

Another consideration is that the real benefit of the old 68kMLA site is access to all the wonderful PAST POSTS that people have spent many hours and days and yes, years, building. The value of that information resource is quite nearly priceless. I believe this is the very reason why so many (like myself) in this thread are quite distraught over the lack of decisiveness and forward-moving actions by the admins of 68kMLA. I personally would have my hands around the necks of those who were witholding this backup without cause, making sure the situation is resolved in the least amount of time. But the very fact it has taken this long indicates that it could take another several weeks to resolve, if ever! This is worrying indeed.

Tom Levens helped move AppleFritter over from the old forums like three years ago and has been an admin at the MLA for as long as I can remember. He's neither seedy or unreliable. A simple AppleFritter search would show that.

When (and if) the 68KMLA goes online, the forum I created will stay online for reference. No deletion happening there.

As far as backups go, the blame cannot fall entirely on the hosting company. It is the responsibility of each customer to backup thier data. Installing PhpMyAdmin which allows backups of MySQL databases is simple, and if memory recalls, phpbb2 also has a backup feature built into the software. The tools are there but you have to use them.

But, Remiel, "Tom" above is saying that the 68kMLA site admin "Tom Levens" (which I assume is a different "Tom") is reliable to the extend that he certainly would have exercised sufficient wisdom in making such a backup for himself. Hence, there must be some other problem at work. I am serious here. If we assume that the site admins are quite nearly flawless as Tom is suggesting (and I am in no position to argue with Tom on that point), then we must assume that the 68kMLA admins indeed face a serious problem the likes of which none of us have ever faced ourselves. In such a case, all that we users of the site can do is simply cry. Of course, Remiel, you have kindly created a new site for us. But I still morn the great loss of all our past efforts.

If it's a matter of having machine to host it on and somebody wants to pay for a co-lo, I've got a low-end (P3) rack mount or two that I could sell off for well under $100. They're too big and loud for em to use at home, so they sit just there, ATM. If I really want to play with rack mounts, I've got a pair of 2.4GHz 1U systems so 3-4U P3s are kinda off my radar. One of the P3s is in an ATX based case, so it could be a cheap case to swap in a good, faster, mobo. If any of the admins of 68kMLA are following this thread and it's a hardware issue, let me know and we can work out something cheap.

*

But, Remiel, "Tom" above is saying that the 68kMLA site admin "Tom Levens" (which I assume is a different "Tom") is reliable to the extend that he certainly would have exercised sufficient wisdom in making such a backup for himself. Hence, there must be some other problem at work. I am serious here. If we assume that the site admins are quite nearly flawless as Tom is suggesting (and I am in no position to argue with Tom on that point), then we must assume that the 68kMLA admins indeed face a serious problem the likes of which none of us have ever faced ourselves. In such a case, all that we users of the site can do is simply cry. Of course, Remiel, you have kindly created a new site for us. But I still morn the great loss of all our past efforts.

Tom Levans has actually came on #68kmla (the IRC channel), and he said he DOES have a backup, but it is a year old (April 2006). granted, that is better than nothing, but before I joined. He said he made that personally. The hosting company made a backup regularly, and would be more current, so that is the one they are trying to get.

I don't know why they are having so much trouble getting the backup from the hosting company, because they are full paying members. I seriously think they should file a lawsuit to release the backup.

-digital

Server Update

At the moment the servers are all good to go again, we just don't have the MySQL database back. It's been a number of weeks and still no sign of activity. A few members have proposed many plans of action, but it's not my place to list them here. The admins are still working, they're doing good work so don't take the blank 403 page as dead. It isn't.

And the hosting company have been difficult in this matter. They still claim they lost it among other backups, and this may be the case, but it's starting to look like their backup basically doesn't exist. A lawsuit (as bought up here) probably wouldn't do anything if this is the case, and since legal fees go in excess of the thousands, it's probably not worth it either.

Community Update

We have active discussions at several communications points, 2 of which are known, the PPCMLA and AppleFritter (this thread). From what we have gathered in the official IRC channel though, we have decided to recommend IRC chat for all 68kMLA updates, news, general discussion, support and announcements of liberations. It all happens in real time, but we can make any "Thread" via the IRC topic line. Come along and join the channel.

Ways to access are via the mlaIRC provided by iRCTunes, Inc at http://tinyurl.com/2b8xvx, the 68kMLA official IRC at http://68kmla.net/chat/, and if you have your own client (recommended for anything that can't use Java, 68ks included)...

...then connect to irc.freenode.net and channel #68kMLA. Come along, we really want to get the community going during downtime and the IRC channel is the closest we can get to an official 68kMLA community.

Look forward to seeing you there!

- iMac600

Well now it makes more sense! The host isn't "withholding the backup" like some in this thread led us to believe; but rather, 68kMLA admins simply choose a brain dead host who lies about making backups in the first place.

If I may be so bold... You ought to consider ServerLogistics from now on. Mac-centric hosting at a great price. I have used them for the last 3 years without problem.

As to the suggestion that we all move to IRC, all I can say is: "I knew it!" But please. If IRC was a good substitute, we'd all have been using it all along.

At this point, I guess it would be good to hold a moment of silence for the now-defunct 68kMLA. For even if it does come back online in exactly the same form, it would appear that all posts made over the last year have been lost (assuming Tom's backup from 1 year ago is still good), which is a tremendous loss in classic Mac information indeed!

ok, lets assume all is lost.

i have been in touch with tom levens about other things. it seems that the 68kmla will be back, but stuff may be lost.
however i would say that the info stored while good, was not for most people the purpose of the the 68kmla - for me it was community, and it was that, that i personaly lost when it went down.
it does seem that it *will* be back. when i have no idea, but from my very brief interchange the admins have not thrown in the towel.

it will be back!
the community built 68kmla and the community will build it back up again.

and no arguments about post counts when it is back online. tedious conversations about hats and stickers, however are a must!

Alright, so what I understand, from loosely following this thread, is that the hard disk in the server that hosts 68kmla died. The hosting company claims they back up but they don't. We thought it was a money issue and all pledged money.

If the above is true, would it be possible to get as many members as we can to pledge some money and have the drive taken to a drive recovery facility? Surely we could get 20 people to contribute $10 or something.

However, the hosting company might have already trashed the bad drive.

If we could look into the cost of recovery we might be able to do this.

Kyle-

Well now it makes more sense! The host isn't "withholding the backup" like some in this thread led us to believe; but rather, 68kMLA admins simply choose a brain dead host who lies about making backups in the first place.

If I may be so bold... You ought to consider ServerLogistics from now on. Mac-centric hosting at a great price. I have used them for the last 3 years without problem.

And if I may be so bold, never, ever, ever trust that your host is actually going to have a backup that works; if the site is worth anything at all to anyone, keep your own backup. If you want something done right, do it yourself.

I'm with Kyle above, with the exception that I'd hit up the hosting company for the costs of recovery, or at least some free months in kind.

davintosh, I agree with what you say. I was simply making a point about "a host that won't lie to you." If you want to avoid the lies, I still recommend ServerLogistics. But Dav is correct in pointing out that the responsibility to keep backups still lies with the website owner. I don't so much say this to slam admins for their past blunders, but rather to say it as a warning to them to avoid a repeat in the future.

And while I do appreciate the "community" at 68kMLA, it wasn't that alone what kept me coming back. As my Classic Mac needs changed, I required information that I hadn't needed before. But that wasn't a problem because I could just trot on over to 68kMLA and conduct a search for what I needed to know. In many cases, such information had been discussed before and in detail, giving me most of the answers I needed to know. It was only in those occasional instances where searches revealed nothing that I felt compelled to start new threads to join into existing ones. So again, I mourn the loss of all that vital information. It would be nice if every could just repost it all again, and on some topics it certainly will, but no doubt some very important information will be lost forever. And I personally mourn that.

This is one of the reasons I don't post much at Jag's House. A couple years ago I did, prior to their having been overun by a teenage thug. But after their move to a new host that charges according to the number of posts made, Jag got into the routine of deleting posts! He then argued with anyone who mourned the loss of those posts. It was at that point I found 68kMLA and have been hooked ever since -- that site and applefritter, of course!

ok, lets assume all is lost.

i have been in touch with tom levens about other things. it seems that the 68kmla will be back, but stuff may be lost.
however i would say that the info stored while good, was not for most people the purpose of the the 68kmla - for me it was community, and it was that, that i personaly lost when it went down.
it does seem that it *will* be back. when i have no idea, but from my very brief interchange the admins have not thrown in the towel.

it will be back!
the community built 68kmla and the community will build it back up again.

and no arguments about post counts when it is back online. tedious conversations about hats and stickers, however are a must!

The community that built the original 68kmla is gone (those posts live on atleast), heck even the comunity that built the 2nd 68kmla is almost extinct. What we have left is mostly OSX users that have nothing to do with a 68K Mac. Seems like most people don't understand that the 68kmla was one of the best places for 68k Mac related knowledge on the web, and it has turned into a hangout for teens who don't use 68k machines, and think community is a place where they can make dozens of offtopic posts a day.

it has turned into a hangout for teens who don't use 68k machines, and think community is a place where they can make dozens of offtopic posts a day.

well, yes you have stated that view before, and there is some truth to it.
but you would still hang around there and post, so there was still something in it for you was there not?
but again though, forums do change. some of the big names that were there when i first joined, no longer post, and there has been a big rush of new folk in the last 6months.
its they way its supposed to be i suppose.
but, yes i too lament a lack of 68k material, but peaks and troughs is more the way i think about it.

First off, I have to apologise for the delay in getting back to you. Some of you might not believe it, but I actually have a life outside of the MLA! I've been pretty snowed under with uni work recently (tis exam season), plus I haven't been well, so the MLA has been the last thing on my mind. As for not responding to this thread, you may have noticed that I haven't been that much of a regular here recently. Applefritter has taken a back seat in my life, so I can only apologise for not seeing this thread sooner.

Now what happened? Basically, iPowerWeb pulled the account that the forums were hosted on. They did this without warning, and their official explanation was a "billing dispute", although I can assure you we were up to date with payments. In doing so, they deleted the MySQL database, and haven't been able to get us a backup of it. Now, I can also admit we weren't as rigourous with our own backups as we should have been, but we did make them. The last backup that I have personally is Feb 2006. Alex kept the others, but these seem to have gone missing! Part of the reason this downtime has been so long is in the hope that iPW would be able to provide us with a backup. Unfortunately it does not look like that's going to be the case. So it looks like we're going to have to start afresh with a new forum.

You can all lay the blame for this where ever you want. Personally, I'm not going to be using iPowerWeb again!

Seeing as this is the case, we might as well make any changes now while we have the chance, so if you can suggest anything that should be changed then please email me. I'm going to try and get something online today or tomorrow.

Sorry again for having kept you in the dark, but I've had other things going on in my life recently, and just haven't had a chance to get around to getting the mess sorted out.

TOM

thanks tom for clearing everything up

The last backup that I have personally is Feb 2006...

...So it looks like we're going to have to start afresh with a new forum...

...we might as well make any changes now while we have the chance, so if you can suggest anything that should be changed then please email me.

Something is better than nothing. Redo the site, make changes, label it 3.0 and whatever else needs doing. Just make the Feb 2006 backup accessible as either a searchable archieve or restore the backup and we will all just acknowledge that the last 14 months have been lost.

I would rather have something of the past to search back upon.

Tom, I think that all of us who have posted in this thread are certainly appreciative of your willingness to post and update us on the situation.

I have examined the iPowerWeb site here:

http://ipowerweb.com/products/index.html

Based on what I see, I still feel that ServerLogistics would be a good alternative, even if it is $2 higher per month:

http://www.serverlogistics.com/

My first web host was MacConnect/Equinox, which I selected based on the recommendations I had read on Guy Kawasaki's EvangeList in the late 1990's. But after a few years, the number of users dwindled, downtime increased, and support became virtually non-existent. It was at that point a friend recommended ServerLogistics and I made the switch. Over the past 3 years of using them, I have no regrets. But more than price and good support and the utter lack of downtime, I am mostly please with the honesty and integrity of ServerLogistic's owner and support staff. You truly get what you pay for at ServerLogistics, and I say this without getting any kickbacks from them over new clients. I am just a very happy user of their service.

tom,
thanks for letting us all kno wats goin on with the mla! if you need any help with this, lemme kno!

The community that built the original 68kmla is gone (those posts live on atleast), heck even the comunity that built the 2nd 68kmla is almost extinct. What we have left is mostly OSX users that have nothing to do with a 68K Mac. Seems like most people don't understand that the 68kmla was one of the best places for 68k Mac related knowledge on the web, and it has turned into a hangout for teens who don't use 68k machines, and think community is a place where they can make dozens of offtopic posts a day.

The original community may be largely gone, but most of the moderators/admins seem to still come from that group - and as a result perhaps the burden has fallen too much on the few that remained active?

I'd also be happy to see the "chat" posts move to IRC and keep the forums more information oriented. Also, ongoing collection of particularly useful/informative posts and compiling them into FAQs or similar would also help us in this sort of situation.

And, whatever happened regarding the hosting, how did our backups "go missing"??? I fear a lot of goodwill may have dissipated as a result of this problem and it's subsequent handling. Let's hope there is a sufficient community once the forums are resurrected...

Last, but not least, thanks to Tom for working to get it back up again.

Ken

I may never post, but I do make it my duty to visit the MLA at least once or twice a month, hopefully at least weekly.

I am afraid many of us have moved on, and the MLA has deviated a bit from it's origins, but it is wonderful seeing it continue on as it does. Hell, maybe I will throw my Hotline Cold Storage Server back online just for kicks

I have been planning on making a re-appearance this summer as university life settles down, and employment is less hectic than the usual.

As bwojtyna doesn't resonate with many, I shall finish and sign off as the ever-long member:

~Da Penguin

The MLA has deviated a bit because some of the members only collect what others throw out (and that seems to be PPC stuff lately). While I have some PPC gear, I tend to realy get into 68K and lately I have been messing with much older 68K hardware that predates my high end quadra gear. While I think its cool getting cards I never heard about (other then in old magazines), it is also hard realizing that very few people have saved anything (drivers, docs, etc) from that era or even know anything about it. That is why I tend to get annoyed at people who are shifting the focus of the 68kmla to OSX/x86 related topics (which you can find bucketloads of on the net).

If the 68kmla ever comes back I would love for the PPC stuff to be spun off into another forum (and I will probably join and contribute there as well). Hopefully the people put off by the OSX crowd will come out and post about the older equipment I know little about.

What ever happened to the Nubus Mafia that was started on the fritter? has anybody added anything in years to it?

Seeing as this is the case, we might as well make any changes now while we have the chance, so if you can suggest anything that should be changed then please email me. I'm going to try and get something online today or tomorrow.

Keep the version numbers rolling. phpBB 3 is basically out, to the point that phpBB.com themselves are announcing they're installing phpBB 3 full-time. It's ready, so if we still have a theme that works with it... install away! I can also say from experience it's much faster than phpBB 2 on all platforms. It's VERY well coded.

As for spinning the PPC forums off, I suggest we just use the same forums as we did before the termination. If there's changes to be made, do them later. I for one would still like to see the 68kMLA cover PPC. I know the PPCMLA is also around, but I don't think it's best to require the users join both forums just to cover Vintage Mac discussion. Keep it the same, and keep it on home ground. The 68k Macintosh Liberation Army forums.

We had our fair share of good times. I know some may like to complain how we made too many off topic posts and all, but that was extremely minimal in the specialist forums. The Lounge was made for that and was a good hub for some community general discussion. Someone mentioned that we use IRC for the Lounge... won't work. There's too much timezone variation.

I have to say this here, which an upgrade and polish is nice, too many drastic changes will kill the community, either in one portion, or as an entirety. I've been there, I know how it happens. What we had before was great. Please don't change it too drastically.

The community that built the original 68kmla is gone (those posts live on atleast), heck even the comunity that built the 2nd 68kmla is almost extinct. What we have left is mostly OSX users that have nothing to do with a 68K Mac. Seems like most people don't understand that the 68kmla was one of the best places for 68k Mac related knowledge on the web, and it has turned into a hangout for teens who don't use 68k machines, and think community is a place where they can make dozens of offtopic posts a day.

Yes, there was a lot of off topic banter on the MLA before the crash. But I think that that would have to be what made the MLA great. We could talk about things like feets and hats freely. And I don't want to loose that. But if you were to look back in the forums, there was still an enormous wealth of information about all kinds of macs. And most of those teenagers, including myself owned some 68k macs.

If I may also add it's a just a bit unfair to teens as such, IMHO. It's a stereotype i'm seeing here. I like a bit of off-topic discussion and news every now and then, but I still love the 68k machines and their classic value.

I may also add that before the crash I wasn't proud of my high postcount. I see the new forums as a clean slate as such.

If I may also add it's a just a bit unfair to teens as such, IMHO. It's a stereotype i'm seeing here. I like a bit of off-topic discussion and news every now and then, but I still love the 68k machines and their classic value.

I may also add that before the crash I wasn't proud of my high postcount. I see the new forums as a clean slate as such.

Look at the top posters, their age, and what they posted.. enough said.

As far as loving the 68K, there are plenty of people who snag whatever they can get and never use any of it. While I don't have a problem with that, those people generally never post anything outside of conquestes because they never use any of the machines outside of booting them once in a while. There were some older folks who did use their machines (back when they were new and even today when they are old), the younger crowd got into fights with them and they left (or got booted) taking their knowledge with them.

The community that built the original 68kmla is gone (those posts live on atleast), heck even the comunity that built the 2nd 68kmla is almost extinct. What we have left is mostly OSX users that have nothing to do with a 68K Mac. Seems like most people don't understand that the 68kmla was one of the best places for 68k Mac related knowledge on the web, and it has turned into a hangout for teens who don't use 68k machines, and think community is a place where they can make dozens of offtopic posts a day.

I'm gonna agree on part of this. I mean, yeah, there is the lounge which is great and all, but even I have noticed a drastic change in the MLA, and I haven't been here that long (between 1-2 years, i think more towards 2). I lurk far more than I post. And as someone else mentioned a few posts up, the discussions about "hats" and "feets" and stuff are great. Those are like our own little "inside jokes" and are part of what makes the community so great. BUT, I think the posts being discussed aren't those sorts of topics, I think they are the just general... topics. The ones that don't really contribute to the knowledge of 68k, they don't contribute to the sense of community, they are just general boredom killers or whatever. I can't cite any specific examples, but I think all of you know what I am referring to. And yes, the teenager part is a stereotype, but if you look at the numbers (well you can't but work with me here), that generalization is true. Stereotypes might not be fair, but neither is life.

I have to say, as well, that the focus of 68k has been lost. Definitely. I remember when the posts used to be almost pure 68k. Everything about 68k was covered, and much of it went way over my head, and some still does. However, now we are talking just about Macs in general, which is okay to some extent, but the atmosphere of 68k has been lost. I know I am guilty of this as well - i think we all are. But, if the 68kMLA comes back, I would like to see it stay the _68K_ MLA. Not the Old Mac MLA. Not the 68k/PPC MLA. Not the Goodwill Rescue MLA. I think of the 68k as one of those sites that should be around for years and years to come, as a wealth of knowledge for everything 68k. The forum started as a way to emphasize and preserve 68k knowledge, and I think that as we broaden things out more, we actually start to regress... it just takes the focus away from the very thing the forum was founded on.

Now, this is just my two cents. Its not directed at anybody or anything or whatever. Just my thoughts and opinions. Don't turn this into a childish finger-pointing/self-defense thread.

Kyle-

The forum started as a way to emphasize and preserve 68k knowledge, and I think that as we broaden things out more, we actually start to regress... it just takes the focus away from the very thing the forum was founded on.

Now, this is just my two cents. Its not directed at anybody or anything or whatever. Just my thoughts and opinions. Don't turn this into a childish finger-pointing/self-defense thread.

Kyle-

yup, yup, yup!
particularly i have to say the change to PPC was less good. i kinda liked PPC in the lounge, much like people talking about their old C64, BBC Micros and old PC hardware was situated mostly in the lounge.
as far as the nature of 'off topic' posts, well i have to ask, is the problem the topics pr the fact that the posters post count increases because of it. i must say that when this conversation comes around, it does tend to move towards - high post count = good, therefore i dont like off topic posts counting towards a high post count.
i do understand what is being said in that argument, but it is kinda old. as i keep saying when i habitually wade in at this point in discussions.
but, and to a degree a big but, it really does kinda help if people you play at the 68kmla actually have and use 68k macs. you know, it just kinda does.
the point after all is to play with old kit.
i will close by saying this as an example of what i mean attitude wise.
twice when there has been a poll about peoples fav compact mac - each time the se/30 has won. i always thought it odd that what could be said to be the most powerful compact always won. if fast and powerful were the main things when measuring computers, i certainly wouldnt be messing about with 68k macs and apple II's.
you know what i mean?

respect

The last several topics are about as "off-topic" in my option as can be. I myself have never, ever experience what you gentlemen are talking about? PPC discussions in 68k forums? What sections were you people in?

I myself only visited the "compact Mac" section of 68kMLA. In over one year of my having participated in that particular section, I didn't see any posts about PPC software or hardware, I didn't see any immature posts by teens or pre-teens, and indeed, I only received helpful information from the likes of Tom Lee, 003, Tyler, Equil and others who shared their extensive knowledge freely. And of course, when I was presented with the opportunity to help others, I shared my own experiences as well (which are sadly now deleted forever).

Another thing that strikes me odd with your posts here is the fact that I am well aware there existed a PPC section. So I don't see what all the complaining about PPC is about, since you could go into that section if you liked and post as you saw fit. And if you were talking about people posting PPC topics in the 68k section, I must again repeat that such never took place (or took place so rarely I didn't notice it) in the "Compact Mac" 68k section of 68kMLA.

I would also like to say that "youth" is neither good nor evil. It's what you make of it. I too was once a teenager (in the 1980's). It was during that time I received my first computer -- a Mac 128k. I've been hooked on Macs and computers in general ever since. But I have found that some people who are in their 30's or 40's or 50's can act far more immature that some teens. And yes, some teens can in fact "act their age." Other teens act like infants almost, reflecting a lack of discipline and proper education at home and school. But every individual must be treated with due respect until they lose that respect due to actions that offend others. Sadly, it was one such teen who did that on Jag's forum and perhaps started an "age war." But I don't believe in stereotyping people myself. Let each individual be found innocent, regardless of age, until proven guilty.

Now let's get back to the main topic here of helping Tom Levens get our beloved forum back online without further delay. If anything is bound to "kill our community," it will be nothing else than our own inaction in getting the site back up and running. I suggest we get up back up and running this week, or at the very least, set a deadline for getting the job done. I think that to be very important in light of Tom's admission that 68kMLA was the last thing on his mind. No doubt, it is the FIRST thing on all our minds, otherwise we would not take time to post here. (This is not a slam against Tom, but rather a remark to encourage immediate action to get the site up and running "today" not "tomorrow.")

I must add a (not so) old saw that stereotypes are, well, stereotypes but they aren't necessarily wrong *just* because they are stereotypes.

To JDW:

The problem with having a PPC section on a site dedicated to 68K machines is that people get turned off when all the new posts are PPC/OSX related. Its a signal to noise ratio that makes people get up and leave.

Everybody stereotypes others, its called the experience of life and there is nothing you can do about it. When you are in a forum you can tell quite a bit about others by what they post and how they treat others without having to ask a persons age.

I never touched a Mac untill 2002, then I started collecting the best 68040's (950, 840av) and have slowly worked my way down to the better 030's (IIfx, IIci, etc. Over time I collected the better Nubus cards (SEIV, SpigotProAV, Audiomedia II, Jackhammer, Media 100, Avid, etc) and I am working back to the earlier cards like the 1991 Rasterops Acellerator card and the early Rasterops AV cards. The difference between me and some other people is that the technology of the period is interesting and I like going back in time to see how things evolved. Even at the age of 38 I think I have more curiosity about the machines then kids in their teens (which was when I was much more curious about how things worked). If latest and greatest is the only things that matter then people should go to an OSX only forum and post there, maybe when they get older and slightly more curious they could come back to the 68kmla (if it still exists).