Bought 2 apple II's (not plus) at garage sale - pics attached for help with IDins them

The A2S2 looks like it might have come from the factory with 48K and the language card. Given the 1979 date I'd say it's one of the last II runs if it's a II.

The other one has different kinds of RAM in different rows... so I'm guessing it was originally 16K and upgraded later. I'd guess it's an earlier version.

Apple IIs will have Integer Basic in ROM and Apple II+ machines will come with Applesoft in ROM. That's one way to check what they are.

I noticed the one has a 1978 date on the lettering.

Was there something in particular you wanted to know?

Check to see what BASIC is in ROM.
I'm guessing it's just a late II.

Here's how to tell:
Model # A2S0... is Apple II and the serial number is A2S1...

Apple IIplus models are A2S1... and the serial # is A2S2...

Boards get swapped out over time, ROM's get upgraded, lids get changed around but you can't hide the model and serial #'s, they are true to fact. Some people say that the older Apple II board with the 16K jumpers indicate it is an apple II but I have personally seen Apple IIplus computers with these boards installed. Around the change over time between the II and the IIplus it was common to see the older II keyboards (raised power light) in IIplus models and the newer IIplus keyboard with the flat power light in the II models. Same went for the mainboards. It makes sense that they used up their inventory.

Hope this helps, people may argue and say their A2S2 is an original II but as far as most experts say, that isn't true.

Just curious but did your II's come with lids? Are they II or IIplus lids?

Vince

another point is the label with the serial itself... it tells the story of the RAM-population at "point of sale"...
A2S2xx16 says it was sold with 16k xxx32 tells it was delivered with 32k and finally xx48 explains the board was shipped with 48 k....
one of the points always to be aware were the habits of those days at the service..... in the later days apple had several apple service centers.... and usually the technicians in those shops always has one or two mainboards as spare on the shelf... those boards came with a computer with malfunction and then they swapped the board with one off the shelf - then after the customer left with the swapped and "repaired" board the technician repaired that other board and put it to the shelf - till the next customer came with a problem and the next cycle of swapping occured.... next repair and next swap.... so in later years rather often the board "within" the computer was not the one, that is was shipped with before.... and documentation in those days to trace up serials from boards and make documentation to the case "it was swapped in" was rather poor....

Vince covered how to tell if it's a II or II+. For a while Apple sold both II and II+ so there's a fair period when the only way to tell if it was originally either is by the label on the bottom. I'd like to say you could tell by the top cover but those are easily swapped. I've even got an Apple II label I pulled off a clone.

The number in the left rear corner is the manufacturing date. Year & week
The one with the 16k "chips" is a Rev 4 motherboard and those 16k "chips" are soldered in memory select blocks.
The one marked 8102 is the first RFI II+. Since it has a II+ serial # it was always a II+

Wayne

Those are both II+ units. I have a Rev.4 board like that in one of mine, and the RFI is newer.

Your pics made me wonder, I have a II with a rev 7 motherboard made the same week as your rev 4. Is that the week when they changed over or did different factories use up their supply of boards at a bit different times. It's not of any importance but I'm curious, does anyone happen to have an earlier rev 7 or later rev 4?

Wayne

Bear in mind that some "early" boards from later releases have been assembled faster and taken along to fairs - while normal production of old revisions continued till the boards have been used up....

I was always told that one of the indicators between an early and late II was the 50 Pin Connectors. The early ones were a bright Green with end tab mountings and the late were either Dark Green or Black without the mounting tabs on the ends.

Is this a misconception?

Good thought. Which brings up the idea that when they started production of a new board,each supplier probably made a test batch that was assembled and tested and likely sold.

Bear in mind that some "early" boards from later releases have been assembled faster and taken along to fairs - while normal production of old revisions continued till the boards have been used up....

That's correct. The early ones had green slots with mounting tabs. Then they switched to black with mounting tabs. Then to slots without tabs

I was always told that one of the indicators between an early and late II was the 50 Pin Connectors. The early ones were a bright Green with end tab mountings and the late were either Dark Green or Black without the mounting tabs on the ends.

Is this a misconception?

So what did you pay for them? You don't have to answer, but of course, that's the first question that comes to mind.

I remember when I took a business law class, the instructor threw out as an aside once that if you found something at a garage sale for cheap that you knew because of your professional authority that the item had much greater value--the example used was a Van Gogh and you were an art collector--it was your legal duty, or something like that, to inform the seller of its true worth before you purchased it. Otherwise, if the seller found out later of its true worth that you did not mention, he could sue you for retrieval of the item or for fair recompense toward its true value. Just an interesting tidbit I heard once.

I remember when I took a business law class, the instructor threw out as an aside once that if you found something at a garage sale for cheap that you knew because of your professional authority that the item had much greater value--the example used was a Van Gogh and you were an art collector--it was your legal duty, or something like that, to inform the seller of its true worth before you purchased it. Otherwise, if the seller found out later of its true worth that you did not mention, he could sue you for retrieval of the item or for fair recompense toward its true value. Just an interesting tidbit I heard once.

Interesting. I wonder how that would apply in the case of, say, eBay. I go there with the explicit purpose to find bargains, and walk away if things approach too-rich-for-me levels. Of course, nothing short of an Apple-1 would come close to mattering in a lawsuit sort of situation, so maybe there isn't enough differential to really matter most of the time.

I remember when I took a business law class, the instructor threw out as an aside once that if you found something at a garage sale for cheap that you knew because of your professional authority that the item had much greater value--the example used was a Van Gogh and you were an art collector--it was your legal duty, or something like that, to inform the seller of its true worth before you purchased it. Otherwise, if the seller found out later of its true worth that you did not mention, he could sue you for retrieval of the item or for fair recompense toward its true value. Just an interesting tidbit I heard once.

Interesting. I wonder how that would apply in the case of, say, eBay. I go there with the explicit purpose to find bargains, and walk away if things approach too-rich-for-me levels. Of course, nothing short of an Apple-1 would come close to mattering in a lawsuit sort of situation, so maybe there isn't enough differential to really matter most of the time.

this was of course not in relation to ebay .... this issue was clearly spotted to the garage-sale....
and just an objection to the point given from that teacher with a contra from a european view ( my view... )
in the last say 20 years the cases in U.S. Courtrooms seem to leave off from any constitutional "ground-floor" in a manor that you can sue anything you want if you want to waste money or if you are running for some kind of lottery-ticket.... the only institution that make a lot of bucks out of that business are the legal-insurance-companies and the so called "law-factories".....
in some special kind of way its the path back to the aera of the railroad-tycoons and the wild wild west....
or translated to nowadays terms.... you´ll get the rights, if you are willing to pay for them.... and the poor judges in Washington are threatened to be drowned away.... next step in that game will be freelancers sitting at the gates of the airports and selling there insurance-policies to the tourists.... "make holiday in USA and sue an american company - maybee you vacation is for free...!"

and ebay itself is worth an own thread.... if anybody is interested in collecting bullshit...

I agree entirely.... people that just want to wreck off the content that ended up in the garage like flushing away some spill are just happy to get rid of that stuff... they determined to value tha space in the garage to be more valuable than the content there - and they are happy with their decession.... why should anyboby disturb their happiness ?
and those that collect some specific kind of collectables ( dont bother if baseballcards, cars or computers ) and want to preserve such kind of things from ending up in a dumpyard are happy too... where´s the problem ??? both fullfill their needs...
there is a good reason for the joke on lawyers...." what are 50 lawyers on the bottom of the hudson river ? a good beginning..."