renting a suit of armor

I second the Reverend.

Don't go cold on her, whatever you do. She sounds like she needs someone there. To ignore her just to see if she'll suddenly feel uncared for and go after you a bit more openly sounds selfish at best.

I second the Reverend.

I'll third.

In any relationship - whether it's professional, friendship, or intimate - good communication is one of the most important things.

If you want to get into playing mind games, go right ahead, but you seem wiser than that.

I think a couple people here need to realize women aren't some sort of alien species to be tricked and co-erced - nor are they always out to do the same to you.

Just use your own good judgement, put yourself in the other person's position and ask yourself how you'd react, and I'm sure you'll do fine.

She'll be 25 in 10 years.

in my experience, and I'm no Don Giovanni, women get more promiscuous as they approach 25. During their 24th year, they will have at LEAST 3 one night stands, not counting the 2 week stands that happen so often. Whatever, its their right, good for them. It is the exception to the rule that a girl gets knocked up in her mid teens and marries young, and never has another partner. Women are very private about their sexuality, and they are much much better liars than men. The less a woman thinks of herself, the more partners she will have, the less she will think of herself... its a self-sustaining cycle. Somewhere after the 25th birthday, women don't care as much, put as much emotional currency into sex, but that is the top of the curve. By the time they are 33-34, they are in their sexual prime... but you'd swear they were virgins... as any mention of it will cause them to make that face of disgust. How does that equation go? "When a man tells you how many women he's slept with, divide it by two. When a woman tells you how many men she's slept with, triple it."

Truth be told, you are being TOO GOOD. Its nice that you are creative, but save it, save it for after you make the sale, not as the attempt to make the sale, during infatuation, which I hate to be the one to tell you, that's what this is. Its not going to work because of the way she feels about herself, if your observation is accurate. She will see herself reflected by you, and she will feel worse for it, as the thin friend of an overweight girl will make her feel fat.

You seriously need to COOL YOUR JETS, because a crash and burn is in your near future. Take some deep breaths and let it flow through you. And take a look at that chick in your math class that never looks up or says anything to anyone. Get to know her. Then take a look at that chick in History that is really stuck up... be bold, and get to know her too, because all of them feel bad about themselves in some way. Well, there are a few girls out there whose parents loved them so much that they actually DO feel good about themselves and laugh a lot... find one of these... and really get to know her too. The more girls you get to know the better you get at it, the more confortable you feel... and in a several months, you'll be hanging out at some nearby college, and totally cleaning up with college coed babes....

No decisions you make now will matter in 10 years, nor will you even remember what they are (unless, I guess, if you decide to start smoking, so don't, or if you decide that this chick was the only one, and if she doesn't want you, why would anyone else... that sort of thing, so don't do that either)

So.. ahem, get a grip, stroke yourself, and realize you can do better. Don't be cruel... just know if you are as interested as you are now, there's a problem and its not going to work. Don't feign disintrest, embody it, and be noble about it.

We all understand, if you don't fall on your face a few times, you won't know how to stop it, but it'd be better if you had many many more and bigger better targets.

It won't be locked, unless starts violating rules. Right now it's just a bunch of guys offering girl advice.

-BDub

First of all, this isn't Dr. Phil, and he's not looking for marriage counseling or a life mate.

He wants to date her. They are in high school. Let's put a bit of perspective on it.

With my approach, you aren't _coercing_ anyone. What a terrible term to use. You are merely playing the game of relationships at that stage of life. At this stage it IS A GAME. Don't kid yourself. She's playing with your head, too:
- She's playing hard to get
- Hot and cold
- etc...
So, it's ok if she does this, but all of a sudden you're using UNFAIR Jedi Mind trickery because I suggest the SAME kind of psychology?

PLEASE, give me a break.

Now, I specifically said do not be rude to her, however, this is simply a method of showing her just how good you are.

Go out for a 5 mile jog in 90 degree weather, and you will really learn to appreciate just how pleasant a nice tall glass of water is when you get done.

Same principle here. You've shown her how nice a guy you are, now show her that you won't be played, and you won't be a doormat and she might actually respect you too. Lay off a little and she if she comes back because you aren't there. Don't be rude, just be scarce.

The real trick is pulling it off, because you are so wound up over this girl, you probably won't have the willpower to keep your distance for that long, and the whole thing will fail miserably, and you'll go back into the same routine.

Look, you're going to have to get her attention one way or the other in order to date her. Otherwise, you'll sit in this purgatory where nothing happens, until she finds someone else she's interested in, and then you'll be that "best friend" that you admitedly don't want to be.

You've been nice, now play mysterious and back off and see how she responds. Don't throw all your emotions and feelings out there right off the bat. That scares people off and you don't want that. There's a time for that, but it's just not at the beginning stages.

A final note:
Catmistake-- _very_ well said. You and I are following the same realistic line of thought on this. Bravo.

With my approach, you aren't _coercing_ anyone. What a terrible term to use. You are merely playing the game of relationships at that stage of life. At this stage it IS A GAME. Don't kid yourself.

Blackbag,

Might I assume that you are somewhere in the 18-22 range? And that you are single?

Those that treat any emotional connection between two people as a game are bound to lose...

To suggest that this young man change his entire behaviour is unrealistic.

Might I assume that you are somewhere in the 18-22 range? And that you are single?

You might very well assume that. You might also assume that I was 32, happily married, with 2 kids. You'd be spot on with the latter assumption, and horribly wrong with the former.

Of course, I could make some assumptions based on your previous postings and muse about them here in order to inflame you, but instead I will devote my energies into this:

Those that treat any emotional connection between two people as a game are bound to lose...

Uggh. There is no relationship here. There is no two-way emotional connection here. This is very much a unidirectional relationship, where our friend here is doing all the work and not getting any response. That's why he's here talking about about it.

He want's his lady friend to recipricate the feelings. Sorry, his odds aren't really in his favor if he lets his heart bleed all over the place before they even take in a movie and a dinner. Cap the emotions, play it cool, and get HER interested in YOU. If you want to get all gooshy, let it happen later, when you've been together for a while.

Deny it all you want, but the process of courting IS a game. Women play games with men, Men play games with women. It happens every day and many levels. The point is not to STAY in the game. Think about your current relationship, good Reverand (of course, I am assuming that you aren't actually Catholic Clergy, and therefore are allowed to have a relationship as such).

Did you and your other (wife) just all of a sudden meet eyes at some random event, approach each other, and immediately imbrace exchange "I LOVE YOUS", and decide to get married, have kids, grow old, and buy an RV and a condo in Florida?

No.

You played a _game_ of cat and mouse, should I call/should I not, is she interested/is she not, etc. At some point, you got serious, dropped the guard and opened up to each other. That's when you "left the game" as it were...

To suggest that this young man change his entire behaviour is unrealistic.

If I were suggesting for him to change his _entire_ behaviour, it would be unrealistic, but I am not asking him to become gay*. Instead, I am asking him to take a different tact in trying to "win the girl" since his current course of action is clearly ineffective (as evidenced by this entire thread).

What's so hard about laying off a bit? You're coming on too strong, it's pretty easy to see. Relax. Don't get all Oprah on her. You need to be a little Fonzie**, and just be cool (right honey-bunny?).

* The whole gay quip was, to use a poorly timed phrase, Tongue in Cheek humor.
** Yes, I realize he's probably too young for the Happy Days reference, but he'll probably catch it just the same from Pulp Fiction.

Of course, I could make some assumptions based on your previous postings and muse about them here in order to inflame you...

Of course you could...

Uggh. There is no relationship here. There is no two-way emotional connection here. This is very much a unidirectional relationship, where our friend here is doing all the work and not getting any response. That's why he's here talking about about it.

He want's his lady friend to recipricate the feelings. Sorry, his odds aren't really in his favor if he lets his heart bleed all over the place before they even take in a movie and a dinner. Cap the emotions, play it cool, and get HER interested in YOU. If you want to get all gooshy, let it happen later, when you've been together for a while.

There is a relationship. Right now it's a friendship, and the boy wishes it to be more. There's no "game" involved. It either will or will not happen. Pretending to be someone you are not (i.e. Fonzie) is deception. Pure and simple. If this boy wants the girl to like him and not some image he is trying to project, then your suggestions simply won't work. She will end up liking the "mysterious, aloof guy", then dumping him once she realized that he is not that.

Deny it all you want, but the process of courting IS a game. Women play games with men, Men play games with women. It happens every day and many levels. The point is not to STAY in the game. Think about your current relationship, good Reverand (of course, I am assuming that you aren't actually Catholic Clergy, and therefore are allowed to have a relationship as such).

Games have winners and losers. Relationships don't. To view any type of relationship as a game, something to be played, something that you win... well, I apologize, but that is a very immature mindset. That is the reason I assumed incorrectly about your age and relationship status. You seem to hold the emotional ideals of a college student.

Did you and your other (wife) just all of a sudden meet eyes at some random event, approach each other, and immediately imbrace exchange "I LOVE YOUS", and decide to get married, have kids, grow old, and buy an RV and a condo in Florida?

That's funny, I didn't see you there...

Actually, no. I've told the story before, and will tell it again, but the short version is I saw her, liked her, and told her she was going to marry me someday. I actively pursued her as we became good friends. My heart was on my sleeve and I never looked back. Now we are entering nearing our 10th anniversary. Had I not told her how I felt, had I "played it cool", we probably would've never gotten together in the first place.

I am asking him to take a different tact in trying to "win the girl" since his current course of action is clearly ineffective (as evidenced by this entire thread).

Once again, we are back to winning, indicating your assumption that people are to be played.

You and I will disagree on this matter. That's plain to see. And only one of us will ever know if the advice we gave was effective or ineffective, as there is no way to follow both.

The young man will either go for it or not... ignore her or not... so we'll just have to see what he does and how it works...

It's Teeling... with a "l" not a "r".

Please don't call her your "best friend". That's corny teen movie crap that young people use to validate escolating boy/girl relationships.

Best friends are people you trust with your life. Best friends help you hook up with the object of your desire. People don't try to hook up with their Best friends and they certainly don't need internet advice as to how to manage relations with their Best friend.

You don't seem to have that here, you have a girl (not woman) that you are interested in (knock off the BS, it's lust) and were wondering what the impact of dressing up like a fool would have.

The only break you are geting from the front line of a web style smackdown is that you are too young to know any better.

Hey... that's great... happy hunting. But please quit being a such doormat!

Roger that gobabushka?

So should I ignore her or should I just go with it. (I also don't want to be just a "good friend").

This is a question that no one but you can answer. You have to make a command decision and follow with that decision. You know what you want. You know what will happen if you fail. You know will happen if you succeed. You know what will happen if you just walk away.

So make a decision and stick with it come Hell or high water.

If you can't make a decision. Take piece of paper and draw a line down the middle. On one side wright Go for it and Don't on the other. Tape it to a wall. Stand back ~12ft, close your eyes and throw a dart. If it comes to this I think the choice will be very clear.