This is similar to the Vince Briel version of the card, but supposedly with some additional capabilities.
https://github.com/rallepalaveev/analog
A couple of things I've noticed about the card compared to the Briel version. The resistor layout on this one is designed for 1/8 watt resistors instead of the much more common 1/4 watt ones. If I don't want to buy 1/8 watt resistors it will make the assembled boards look kinda ugly. The shape looks kind of cool, but there really isn't much utility to it. The Briel version's placement of the VGA connector at the top of the card actually is probably better, especially if the card is being used with a VGA->HDMI converter because it allows more space. Not cutting the fancy shape would probably save money if you were mass producing these boards, although it didn't seem to make much difference at JLCPCB for the 5 quantity I had made. I think a simpler rectangluar shape with the VGA connector at the top like the Briel version would have allowed a simpler, less crowded design and spacing of components that would have made 1/4 resistors easy to fit. Anyway... I don't want to come off as negative... I am definitely looking to see how the additional features of this board, apparently allowed by the additional PLD chip, a GAL 22V10 allows. I also need to dig into the source code for both this version and the earlier version that the Briel board uses to see how these additional featured are implemented. I am really curious about what the GAL 22V10 does to allow some of the things like the Z80 card emulation and also supposedly 80 column card emulation on a ][+ type system (the main thing I'm interested in). Z80 card emulation is interesting also of course.
For some reason the pics didn't take... here they are...
ralle-front.jpeg
ralle-back.jpeg
Neat! I was lucky enough to scoop a V2Analog from Tindie a while back, so I'm excited to see how this plays out for you.
Does that one have the 80 column emulation for ][+?
I thought so, but figuring it out has been on the back burner. I have the card pulled from the IIe I originally bought it for, and set aside for a II+, but documentation was sparse. I should check the 3.5" 800K floppy that came with it, it has some utilities IIRC.
Do you mind posting the contents here if you have some time? Mine was a trade and didn't come with a floppy, just a Wi-Fi Pico. The guy who made it said that there was some Wi-Fi functionality, but he didn't have a chance to try it and the documentation is next to non-existent. This is also the reason for the weird opening behind the Pico in Ralle Palaveev's PCB - better reception for Picos equipped with a Wi-Fi module.
I happen to have it handy, but my card was an early rev with no wireless, so no promises on the content being helpful there.
Hopefully I uploaded this right: https://www.applefritter.com/files/2023/11/11/V2ANALOG.2mg.zip
Hmm, I am not sure what this .2mg image is. I cannot open it with CiderPress or mount it as a hard drive in AppleWin.
Odd. I had to zip it to attach it here, which I initially didn't want to compress it. I'll check on that but it will be tomorrow. It's from a copy of my floppyemu backup, and I know it worked on there, and I still have the disk; I'll make sure you get it.
Thanks! Take your time, there is no rush.
The ZIP archive is fine and the V2ANALOG.2mg inside is the right size after I unzipped it. But it doesn't seem to be a valid .2mg format according to CiderPress and AppleWin.
I ordered parts to build these boards... Also noticed there is now a 1/2 version of the card. Not sure what the differences are. The board looks slitghtly different but not a lot.
I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wish that these projects would inclode a Bill of Materials document. That makes ordering parts and assembling cards SO MUCH easier.
Looking at this version of the card there are 4 diodes that I have no idea what values to use. It's not marked on the board. Pictures I find online are usually way too small to read any markings.
They all need to be Schottky diodes. Look for low voltage drop, preferably under 0.5V at 1mA.
This one will work, among many others: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/BAT41/603518
Also dan10*2010 seems to be using exactly those and I know that he tests his cards: https://www.ebay.com/itm/126161020982
I had some 1N5819 diodes on hand that show as being Schottky, so I will try building one with those. I know the seller you linked to. I've worked with him and bought from him and I think maybe even sold to him in the past.
The parts to assemble the cards should be here around Friday. I had to order Picos and D sub 15 connectors and I went ahead and orderd 1/8 watt resistors for the 1K, 2K and 10K spots other than the line right by the Dub15 connector where 1/4 watt BARELY fit. I have one board mostly assembled. I need to go through my chip stock and find and program an ATF22V10. The board has an option to be built without the PAL, but I think you can't use the 80 column card emulation or the Z80 card emulation features unless you have it. Not 100% sure about any of this yet, but that's my understanding at this point.
Yeah this is odd, it won't mount in my GS emulator either, but when I look at the file header in hex, it looks valid.
I'll re dump the disk.
That is 100% correct. Functionality-wise Palaveev's card is identical to the V2 Analog card, so with the PAL it can do everything outlined in Adrian’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReTXGczq8Vk
What the hell is going on in the world lately... First the power supply board I ordered is inexplicably delayed and maybe lost in shipment... Now my DigiKey order of the Picos and D sub 15 connectors for this project are showing "Unexpected Shipping DelayDue to unforeseen circumstances, your order was unable to be shipped as planned. Invoice and shipping information will be made available to you as soon as possible."
Looks like I won't be able to get these things done until next week at least.
Last time I ordered Picos with any other parts it got held up. I split them separate and they somehow shipped right away, only to be misrouted westward by UPS at first. But I eventually got them.
Sorry about your luck, hope it comes through. Digikey is in very very Northern Minnesota, I'm not surprised I deal with more extra days here and there in shipments from them.
Yeah, I usually prefer to order from Mouser instead of DigiKey because Mouser is about 150 miles from me vs. abuot 1200. I often get packages from Mouser the next day if I order in the morning and only pay for the regular shipping. However, for these particular items for some reason DigiKey was significantly cheaper which is why I went with them.
I did finally get a ship notice from DigiKey, but based on normal FedEx delivery times from them on previous orders, Friday is probably the earliest it will get here, more likely Saturday or Monday. I guess that really isn't terrible.
I happen to be very lucky that the largest electronics distributor in Bulgaria is only 15-20 min away. (And so is Ralle Palaveev, althogh I have never met him.)
Often I would make an online order, get in my car and the order would be ready to be picked up by the time I get there. For more exotic items like a 74LVC245 in a DIP package, they have weekly deliveries from DigiKey, so the shipping is free. I only pay their markup + VAT, but the free shipping more than makes up for it. So for the Briel cards that I made, one 74LVC245 priced at $1.06 on DigiKey’s site ended up costing me $1.82.
I believe Digikey is either in the middle of moving to a larger warehouse, or just recently moved. So it sounds like growing pains. In the past 3-4 weeks, they have either split some of my shipments and/or have been delayed. Hopefully once the move is complete and they get settled in these issues will go away.
My DigiKey order is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I sent two bare PCBs to skate (sharing the love, thanks for the Briel version cards). I have 3 assembled except the parts from DigiKey (Picos and D sub 9 connectors) and 72LVC245 chips for two of the cards. I used up all the ones I had previously ordered so had to order some more from Juried. I'm tempted to try some of the ones that didn't work in the Briel card to see if this version is less sensitive. Since it powers the 3.3V side differently, using the on-board regulator on the Pico instead of an external regulator like the Briel card I am wondering if there might be a difference.
I'm getting down to the programming issues. I've got to figure out which is the best firmware for the Pico and then the big question I have right now...
The project only includes the .PLD file and not the compiled .JED version that is needed to program ATF22V10 with my TL866 programmer. The first problem here is there are several different .PLD files in the project and I'm not sure which is the best one to use or which ones are needed for different functionality like the 80 column emulation (what I'm most interested in) or the Z80 card emulation (also interesting). The second problem is compiling the .PLD into the .JED. In the past I've normally used galasm to compile these files for other projects. This one doesn't seem to work with galasm. It appears to have syntax specific things for WinCUPL. I don't have Windows so I can't run WinCUPL directly. Supposedly it works under Wine. Most articles online say the GUI part is problematic anyway and recommend running it from the command line to compile files. I haven't had a need to do anything with Wine in several years so it is going to take me a bit of research to figure out how to make that work. This isn't the first time I've run into this but in the past I was always able to get a compiled .jed from someone else if the .pld isn't compatible with galasm. Looking at this .PLD file vs some from other projects I'm thinking it wouldn't take a lot to write a converter to slurp up the WinCUPL syntax file and spit out one that will work in galasm. They aren't THAT different. Probably could be done pretty easily in Perl with some regex parsing. Or another option is to dig into the galasm code and add the parsing to it. It's open source unlike WinCUPL which is supplied by Microchip (formerly Atmel) only as an executable. Either of those two options would probably be beneficial to people who are on Linux of MacOS as their primary development platforms. It may even eventually become necessary for Windows because there's no guarantee that Microchip will continue to support or update WinCUPL and existing versions may quit working under newer Windows versions some day. That happens a lot. I know numerous people who have to keep old Windows boxes running from years ago unsupported versions like Windows XP or even older because they need some proprietary bit of software that won't run on anything newer. That really gets to be a pain in the butt at some point. Similarly I spent some time recently on a side project porting a bunch of old C code from OS/2 to Linux because it has gotten to be too much of a hassle for the client who uses it to keep running OS/2 these days. Their old hardware has started to fail and not all the software worked well on VMs plus apparently the newer versions of the VM software they use no longer support OS/2 guest OSes.
Well... quite a rabbit hole I went down there... Anyway... Anyone know anything about which firmware and PLD files to use? Anyone know how to get ahold of Ralle Palaveev? I'd love to ask him a few questions...
Well, I found Ralle Pa on a FB group, so I messaged him over there to see if I can get any answers to my questions. Otherwise it is trial and error time.
Good deal
The schematic for 1.1 shows a 220uf at C7 nowhere to be found on the card unless I am really missing something.
Perhaps a divide and conquer approach would be useful in this situation. You can get the card working without the ATF22V10 by simply bridging its socket as shown here:
s-l1600 (6).jpg
The picture is from dan10*2010's eBay listing. This is how he sells them. In this configuration Palaveev's card is identical to Vince Briel's card in terms of functionality and will work with the same firmware that you put on the Briel cards. Once you get it working like this, you can then concentrate on the ATF22V10.
I will ask him about that when he replies. I expect it is 0 dark 30 in the morning where he is at in Eastern Europe right now.
That was my plan, jumper those pins for a bit and then get to the GAL.
There's 2 pads specially shapen on the back to bridge it if you just don't plan on using it.
It's omitted, because it's not really needed. The Pico board has a 47uF ceramic SMD cap on the 5V rail and another 47uF ceramic SMD cap on the 3.3V rail. That seems to be enough for everything.
I guess the Vince Briel version could lose the LM3940 as well. :)
Is this board just using a simple voltage division with resistors? I am not opposed to that, but neither am I opposed to a LDO regulator of it's doing its job well.
You are almost right in this configuration is similar with Briel version but somehow better because it is working on all Apple II Series including Platinum with the same firmware. Briel version has different firmware for Apple IIe or Platinum. I'm in permanent contact with Ralle and he working hard to figure out how to get Z80 features working on this configuration. Talking about the diodes he contacted me recently and he said 1N4148 it's a better option I didn't try yet but he said he tried out and worked perfectly.
No, it's just using the SMPS that is on the Pico module to power the whole card (except the ATF22V10) with 3.3V:
Pico Powerchain.png
Aha, nice!
With any luck I'll build one this weekend. I don't have ATF22V10 but I have GAL22V10 ICs on hand so I may try one.
I have 1N4148 diodes I could use, but I was going to use BAT85 schottky diodes after reading your post about voltage drop spec.
This is from Ralle Palaveev, it is the .jed that can be programmed onto an ATF22V10 (and should I think also work on a Lattice GAL 22V10) using a programmer like a TL866.
Thanks!!!
I'm scrounging for Pico W's because I might have a couple, otherwise, I'll build one or 2 with normal Picos.
Oh, Ralle also sent me this .jed file. Not sure what the difference is between this one and the other one. I need to ask him that. But if the above one doesn't work, give this one a try.
My Picos and D sub 25 connectors came from DigiKey today. I've got the rest of the soldering done on the 3 version 1.1 boards I am building. I will try programing the firmware and the ATF22V10 chips tomorrow and give things a try. I will need to figure out the POP9 (Power Over Pin 9) hookup point on this one since it is slightly different than the Briel version. That should be simple enough though. I noticed one of the things Ralle did on the 1.2 version of the board is build in POP9, which will be nice. I have 5 version 1.2 boards coming and I still have enough other parts on hand (or will when the 74LVC245 order from Juried comes in, hopefully by Monday) to build 2 of those. So I will probably start assembling those when they get here. I got a ship notice from JLCPCB today, but I had selected the cheapest shipping option so it could be a couple weeks before they get here, especially as we are approaching the xmas insanity season and international shipping may slow down some.
Here is a pic of an assembled card, minus the not yet programmed ATF22V10 chip.
RP_A2VGA_1.1.jpeg
I found one extra Pico W and one normal Pico in my spares pile :)
So far I've only had full function with the z80 firmware 4ns/wifi https://github.com/V2RetroComputing/analog-firmware/releases
I tried both JEDs in conjunction with some VGA firmwares, and got video briefly with the 2nd .jed which was posted but not reliably. I kept getting a black screen with only the cursor visible. So that's the point where I tried the z80 firmware and then booted the PCPI Applicard CP/M disks from a FloppyEMU no problem. So if nothing else, that's neat and I can confirm that works. I did try a new set of level shifter ICs for sanity sake.
I stuck my original V2ANALOG in my II+ but 80 column mode doesn't seem to work. That would be the last thing that would motivate me to build another one of these boards.
I programmed the Picos and ATF22V10B chips but haven't gotten around to testing them yet. I need to make the POP9 (Power Over Pin 9) mod first, because I think as low as the VGA port sits on hese cards powering the VGA->HTML converters from a Micro USB isn't going to work too well. I should have time to do some testing later I hope. I'm also working on another prokect (AE power supply PT-65B swap) today.
I still couldn't get video with the firmware published here https://github.com/V2RetroComputing/analog-firmware/releases/tag/20230406
However, z80 mode works, and if I use the markadev firmware or the one I modified for scanlines, video works. However, no 80 column emultion. That's still the only thing lacking, but it's neat to be able to switch this already between the equivalent of the briel VGA card and a Z80 softcard. Not bad.
Edit; looks like I need this first https://github.com/V2RetroComputing/analog-preload
Then I can flash video and it should work. But I don't see a built version... here we go...
Found the preloader... should be the last missing link, it's in the zip here
https://github.com/V2RetroComputing/analog/releases/download/20230504/V2-Analog-RGB9-20230504.zip
I am assuming you install it onto the Pico the same way as the other file, but this one goes on then the rest of the firmware after that?
That's my understanding.
This zip looks solid; do the preloader but don't immediately unplug the pi! it will show back up by itself for the 2nd half.
@CVT this zip has the disk images as well it appears.
I reprogrammed my Picos with the preloader first and the 4ns VGA code. Hopefully I will have time to try them out later. I got a delivery notice for the 74LVC245 chips I ordered from Juried so hopefully if all things go well I will have 3 working 1.1 cards and in a couple weeks when the 1.2 PCBs come in I should be able to build two of those. If all this goes well I will probably go ahead and order 3 more Picos and Dsub15 connectors to complete the rest of the 1.2 cards. I'll also need to order more diodes as I've depleted much of my supply building the 1.1 cards. I may not even have enough of the right ones left to build more than one 1.2 card initially.
Well, all three of my Ralle PA cards are working for VGA, at least in a //e. I haven't tried them in a ][+ or clone yet to see if the 80 column card emulation works.
I haven't tried the Z80 card emulation yet either. Not in a super rush for that one, although I will check it at some point.
Here is the POP9 (Power Over Pin 9) mod for this card:
rp_a2vga_pop9_mod.jpeg
POP9 is basically manditory to use the VGA->HDMI converters with this one. Due to the low placement of the VGA connector on these, you can't fit the convter to the card with a Micro USB cord connected to it. I kinda wish that Ralle had put the connector higher on the card. It would make the traces to the VGA connector straighter too and maybe allow more space on the card so the resistors weren't so squeezed in. I had to buy 1/8 watt resistors for all but the row by the VGA connector because 1/4 watt ones woulnd't fit comfortably and it would have looked bad putting them in at angles to make them fit.
Oh, I should give the instruction for how to program the ATF22V10B chips...
I use the open source minipro software which runs on Linux (and I think maybe MacOS too, but I haven't tried it). I used a TL866-II programmer for this. You can download the software from here:
https://gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro/
From the command line:
minipro -p ATF22V10B -w PICOPAL-N.jed -e
That's it. It should program and verify.
rp_a2svga_complete.jpeg
Oh... I also forgot... the bad batch of 74LVC245 I mentioned in the thread about the Briel version of this card work even worse in this card, not better as I'd hoped they might. In the Briel card they cause a few weird characters on the screen. With this card the whole screen is just garbage. So whatever is bad about those chips this card is even more sensitive to it. The chips I got from Juried Engineering however, work flawlessly, as I expected they would.
Are you getting the VGA->HDMI converters from the original link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003433149398.html ?
I am asking, because yours is different. Notice that on mine the VGA connector is rotated by 180 degres, so the USB port ends up on top when you plug it in. Also mine are very easy to open, because they use plastic pegs instead of clips and don't require tape when you close them: https://www.applefritter.com/comment/104763#comment-104763
Also notice that then plugged in to the card, the labels of my adapter are visible from the back side:
Card and convertor.JPG
Otherwise I totally agree that the VGA connector should provide power on pin 9, so that it works with all HDMI converter variations.
I took a moment to compile a blog post, which would not have been possible without the others here. This should save people some time with programming the GAL and Pi and includes a parts list.
https://www.applefritter.com/content/getting-your-apple-ii-vga-card-and-running-ralle-palaveev-version
I got mine off Amazon. I ordered one off Aliexpress, but it hasn't gotten here yet. Shipping from China tends to be verrrrrrryyy slllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....
Thanks for the write up. Maybe it is just me, but that link didn't work for me, it had a couple extra characters on the end I had to chop to get the page to load.
https://www.applefritter.com/content/getting-your-apple-ii-vga-card-and-running-ralle-palaveev-version
In addition to the diode types you used as noted in this threat I was able to get 1N5819 and 1N5817 diodes to work. I noticed you had to stand up the 1K and 2K resistors to get them to fit. I thought about doing that but went with 1/8 watt resistors instead. I needed to buy resistors anyway, so it was easy enough to get the ones that fit laying flat.
Interesting your CP/M is only in 40 columns. Have you been able to get 80 column functionality to work with this card? That's my next thing planned. Also I am assuming you used the CP/M disk images for the PCPI Applicard like the ones from here:
https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/Z80%20Cards/PCPI%20Appli-Card/Disk%20Images/
or here:
https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/cpm/os/
The Franklin images I believe will also work with an Applicard or clone since Franklin's card was a licensed copy.
You're right, the link has some trailing characters, thanks for trimming it; I can't edit the post anymore.
I did use the PCPI disks for CP/M.
80 column mode is my final frontier on this one. No luck yet but also it just made it to the top of my list, so I haven't gone in depth to see how it's actually supposed to work in the 1st place.
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